Lallemand Verdant IPA yeast

[Sipina]

Go to the UK, find yourself a proper pub who knows how to treat a cask and the lines and see for yourself!

How would you manage to experience the taste of chocolate without eating it yourself?

You have got a point of course and I agree however let me also give you an example of what a what I believe is a good description. Here: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/penzance-mild-2025-camra-champion.107508/

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers!

 

[Miraculix]

You have got a point of course and I agree however let me also give you an example of what a what I believe is a good description. Here: https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/penzance-mild-2025-camra-champion.107508/

Let me know your thoughts.

Cheers!

It's a mild, probably a good one. I think I'm the UK forum you might find good general directions!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Like Northern Brewer I’ve been drinking British Bitter for a long time and I can tell you it’s so much better now than 50 years ago. I ignore the BJCP guidelines as these are so wrong. However British Bitter is an evolving drink with ingredients from the UK and elsewhere and that like our food is a good thing. Thank goodness we don’t have German Purity rules. Personally I wouldn’t use Verdant in bitter only IPA but I don’t have a problem with anyone who does. Only 2 types of beer Good and Bad, if you think a beer is good then drink and make it.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

It's a mild, probably a good one. I think I'm the UK forum you might find good general directions!

For me a good mild is an oxymoron.

 

[worlddivides]

I also don't think anyone who's suggested using Verdant in an English ale was suggesting to use it in a bitter. "English ales" refers to all the ales in England, which is a pretty huge category. Milds, stouts, porters, brown ales, barleywines, old ales, strong ales, pale ales (all bitters are pale ales, but not all pale ales are bitters), burton ales, and on and on. I've seen this quite a few times where someone mentions "English ales" and someone automatically assumes "bitters." It also gets more complicated since modern British craft breweries sometimes do beers that are English styles but not remotely traditional (one of the best stouts I've ever had was a chocolate brownie-themed imperial stout by an English brewery). Verdant itself is an example of this (I saw an interviewer with the founder/head brewer talking about using the Verdant yeast in more traditional English ales too). Personally I've only ever used Verdant in hazy (i.e. New England, not England) IPAs, but I don't think it's fair to say the people who think Verdant is good in English ales just aren't familiar with English ales.

 

[Miraculix]

... but I don't think it's fair to say the people who think Verdant is good in English ales just aren't familiar with English ales.

That was not the point I tried to underline. The main thing was, that this yeast has nothing to do with the typical flavour of classic english strains. Bitters, strong ales, does not really matter, it just does not fit if you want it to be a classic one. If you want to reinvent somehting, go for it! Obviously, beer is something that has changed over time and is continuously changing. Just look at all these British beers that now feature upfront american hops, for example. Btw. this would be a beer where I would see Verdant really shine in.

Doesn't mean that it cannot be used for a "standard" bitter, I brew what I personnaly like and do not give anything about what style guidelines or other people might think. It's just not in the same room as a normal bitter, if you ask me. Us05 would work, boring but would work. Vedant would not really, it is too expressive. It is like brewing a bitter with a Hefeweizenyeast. Yes, you could do it, and you probably SHOULD do it, if you like the outcome. It is just not something I would call a "normal" English bitter.

 

[worlddivides]

I definitely agree that Verdant does not make me think "classic" or "typical" English ale, but I don't recall him ever saying anything about bitters or classic traditional flavors. Verdant has a pretty unique flavor. But since it is related to London Ale III, it does share some of the same characteristics, and I have to imagine that might be where people pick out "English ale characteristics." Verdant is fruity, but so are a ton of English ale strains. Again, I personally have only had it in hazy IPAs, so I don't have the same experience as people who might have used it in an English ale (like Halfakneecap).

 

[Cheshire Cat]

As I alluded to earlier British beer in all its guises is evolving in taste, ingredients and names. The BJCP miss the whole point that most light and amber UK beers are bitters in one form or another. For example
Pale Ale is bottled bitter
IPA is strong bottled bitter
Golden Ale in very pale bitter
Amber ale is amber bitter
Luckily we don’t have an Old England IPA that opaque.
So there is no reason not to put whatever hops and yeast into these.
My favourite bitters however have in the main English hops and Nottingham yeast.

 

[Miraculix]

I definitely agree that Verdant does not make me think "classic" or "typical" English ale, but I don't recall him ever saying anything about bitters or classic traditional flavors. Verdant has a pretty unique flavor. But since it is related to London Ale III, it does share some of the same characteristics, and I have to imagine that might be where people pick out "English ale characteristics." Verdant is fruity, but so are a ton of English ale strains. Again, I personally have only had it in hazy IPAs, so I don't have the same experience as people who might have used it in an English ale (like Halfakneecap).

Try it in a beer which does not have american hops in it and you will agree with me. I am 100% sure. I do not understand what American hop does to verdant, but it changes it's characteristics completely. It is like a completely different yeast once the American hops are not there. Really, I have not a single idea how this is even possible, but I have witnessed this so often that I am just accepting it as a given trait that I do not understand. But I can work with it!

 

[balrog]

Try it in a beer which does not have american hops in it and you will agree with me. I am 100% sure. I do not understand what American hop does to verdant, but it changes it's characteristics completely. It is like a completely different yeast once the American hops are not there. Really, I have not a single idea how this is even possible, but I have witnessed this so often that I am just accepting it as a given trait that I do not understand. But I can work with it!

Perhaps.
But I do love your classic english ale with 1/2 verdant and 1/2 notty.

 

[Miraculix]

Perhaps.
But I do love your classic english ale with 1/2 verdant and 1/2 notty.

Let's say, it is better than 100% Verdant .

Wasn't it me that came up with that idea as a Pub replacement for the Miraculix best? I think I ended up with something like 1/4 or 1/3 verdant and the rest notty, at my last tryout. Was decent!

 

[Halfakneecap]

I have not the slightest idea how somebody might get English ale vibes from verdant. Unless this person never spent time in UK, trying some of their ales.

Not a single time I have tasted an ale over there that was even close to what verdant brings to the table. And I've spent five years there. But maybe I've just missed something?

I struggle to understand why you have such a strong reaction to people who like Verdant for british beers. It's obvious you don't like it, i get that, but why does it bother you so much that some people do like it?

TT landlord is a completely different beer to London Pride etc, there is no one "classic" british beer, is there?

There are many different british ale strains to choose from, and are very different to each other.

 

[worlddivides]

Try it in a beer which does not have american hops in it and you will agree with me. I am 100% sure. I do not understand what American hop does to verdant, but it changes it's characteristics completely. It is like a completely different yeast once the American hops are not there. Really, I have not a single idea how this is even possible, but I have witnessed this so often that I am just accepting it as a given trait that I do not understand. But I can work with it!

I tend to ferment most English ales at between 16C and 18C (and often let the temperature rise up to around 20C near the end of fermentation, being careful it doesn't get too high), whereas with the hazy IPAs I've done with Verdant (and I have another one with Citra, Galaxy, and Amarillo planned that also uses Verdant), I try to keep the temperature consistently around 19C or even 20C. If I had central air conditioning and tons more space for kegs and bottles, then I'd probably do an experiment with Verdant in a London porter or a mild, maybe testing fermenting it at 16C in one version and at 19C in another. I might even try it in a strong bitter, maybe using English hops that I could see working with its ester profile.

 

[worlddivides]

I struggle to understand why you have such a strong reaction to people who like Verdant for british beers. It's obvious you don't like it, i get that, but why does it bother you so much that some people do like it?

TT landlord is a completely different beer to London Pride etc, there is no one "classic" british beer, is there?

There are many different british ale strains to choose from, and are very different to each other.

You're also not the only person who likes Verdant in British beers. I've read and seen quite a few people who like it for British beers (though they're definitely not in the majority), so it's a common enough opinion.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I tend to ferment most English ales at between 16C and 18C (and often let the temperature rise up to around 20C near the end of fermentation, being careful it doesn't get too high), whereas with the hazy IPAs I've done with Verdant (and I have another one with Citra, Galaxy, and Amarillo planned that also uses Verdant), I try to keep the temperature consistently around 19C or even 20C. If I had central air conditioning and tons more space for kegs and bottles, then I'd probably do an experiment with Verdant in a London porter or a mild, maybe testing fermenting it at 16C in one version and at 19C in another. I might even try it in a strong bitter, maybe using English hops that I could see working with its ester profile.

I always ferment on the cooler side, 16-18c for ales. Just pitched verdant in an all cascade pale at 16c.

 

[Miraculix]

I struggle to understand why you have such a strong reaction to people who like Verdant for british beers. It's obvious you don't like it, i get that, but why does it bother you so much that some people do like it?

TT landlord is a completely different beer to London Pride etc, there is no one "classic" british beer, is there?

There are many different british ale strains to choose from, and are very different to each other.

I think you are over interpreting my writings. I can assure you that there is no strong reaction on my side. I'm just trying to explain.

 

[Miraculix]

You're also not the only person who likes Verdant in British beers. I've read and seen quite a few people who like it for British beers (though they're definitely not in the majority), so it's a common enough opinion.

Common enough for what? What are you guys actually trying to say here ? Or maybe better question, what do you guys actually think that I'm trying to say? I think there might be a big difference to what I actually tried to say.

 

[worlddivides]

Common enough for what? What are you guys actually trying to say here ? Or maybe better question, what do you guys actually think that I'm trying to say? I think there might be a big difference to what I actually tried to say.

What do you mean "for what?" Pretty common enough of an opinion that it's not so bizarre that a decent number of people think it. You said, "I have not the slightest idea how somebody might get English ale vibes from verdant. Unless this person never spent time in UK, trying some of their ales." And I said, among other things, "I don't think it's fair to say the people who think Verdant is good in English ales just aren't familiar with English ales." and pointed out reasons why people would think that. It's not like they're saying a Hefeweizen yeast is good in English ales or a Kveik yeast is good in English ales. They're saying that a yeast by an English brewery (Verdant) derived from a pretty famous English ale yeast (London Ale III) goes good in "English ales." The fact that that brewery mainly makes US-style beers is kind of irrelevant since the US style they make is famous for using almost exclusively English ale yeasts. And why do you need to go to England to know what English ales taste like? I actually have been to England, but I never tasted anything there that I haven't been able to taste in Japan or the US. It's not like there's this secret vault of English ales that they refuse to let leave the country and refuse to let anyone outside the country brew. I may not have ever brewed an English ale with Verdant, but I'm not assuming that people like Halfakneecap and Sipina know nothing of English ales and are just parroting what they read online from other people who know nothing of English ales.

 

[Miraculix]

What do you mean "for what?" Pretty common enough of an opinion that it's not so bizarre that a decent number of people think it. You said, "I have not the slightest idea how somebody might get English ale vibes from verdant. Unless this person never spent time in UK, trying some of their ales." And I said, among other things, "I don't think it's fair to say the people who think Verdant is good in English ales just aren't familiar with English ales." and pointed out reasons why people would think that. It's not like they're saying a Hefeweizen yeast is good in English ales or a Kveik yeast is good in English ales. They're saying that a yeast by an English brewery (Verdant) derived from a pretty famous English ale yeast (London Ale III) goes good in "English ales." The fact that that brewery mainly makes US-style beers is kind of irrelevant since the US style they make is famous for using almost exclusively English ale yeasts. And why do you need to go to England to know what English ales taste like? I actually have been to England, but I never tasted anything there that I haven't been able to taste in Japan or the US. It's not like there's this secret vault of English ales that they refuse to let leave the country and refuse to let anyone outside the country brew. I may not have ever brewed an English ale with Verdant, but I'm not assuming that people like Halfakneecap and Sipina know nothing of English ales and are just parroting what they read online from other people who know nothing of English ales.

I don't get your point. I pretty much explained everything in post 66? Or what did I miss?