Lalbrew Kveik Voss dry yeast - starter?

[spittybug]

I'm brewing a 1.059 Vienna/rice summer drinker on Monday, 11.5 gallons to fermenter. My first use of Kveik. BrewersFriend is saying 475B cells required, 110B present. Normally I make starters for all my beers (1 packet and make a 2l 1.035 gravity starter - does well for me). I've been reading that the Kveik likes being underpitched and run in the mid 80 degrees range. The latter is no problem here in Texas. How underpitched? 1 package for my whole 11.5 gallons? That scares me.....
Thanks.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I am using Voss for the first time right now, but I’ve been brewing with hornindal for a few years now. So, I’m hoping it similar. I ended up splitting one dry pack of Voss between 2 6 gallon carboys.

I’ve found (at least with hornindal) that stressing the yeast by under pitching really does help get some of the stone fruit flavor profile out of the yeast. Too, cool or too much yeast and you lose it. I also think that under pitch helps get the fuller mouth feel too.

I use a lot of saved yeast. I use about 1 tablespoon of saved hornindal slurry. If’s it’s really old, like three or four months old, i’ll use 2 or 3 tablespoons. Sounds crazy, but it works.

These are really fun yeasts right play with. I’m excited to try Voss.

 

[ebbelwoi]

With Lallemand Voss, I use 1/4 of a package for 2.5 gallons, so 1 package for 11.5 sounds about right.

 

[Zambezi Special]

I also think you will be fine.
I make small batches and don't even weigh it anymore. Just sprinkle a little yeast. I'm sure I get at least 4-5 batches of about 2 gallons done with 1 pack

 

[Yesfan]

How do you all store the unused portion of yeast to keep it viable? I'm talking mainly about the dry versions like the Voss and Lutra dry packets.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I roll it up tight, put a tiny binder clip on it, then slide it into a tiny ziplock bag. Seems to work for me.

 

[Yesfan]

I roll it up tight, put a tiny binder clip on it, then slide it into a tiny ziplock bag. Seems to work for me.

Do you put it in a fridge, freezer, or just store it at room temp?

 

[ebbelwoi]

I keep all my dry yeast in the fridge.

 

[spittybug]

Thanks everyone. Cooking 10 lbs of rice today and it will go in the mash with the Vienna (and some amylase for good measure) tomorrow. It is supposed to be mid 90's tomorrow here so I shouldn't have any problem keeping the fermentation nice and warm. Hopping with Columbus which I read compliments the fruitiness of the Kveik.

 

[Zambezi Special]

How do you all store the unused portion of yeast to keep it viable? I'm talking mainly about the dry versions like the Voss and Lutra dry packets.

I fold the pack closed and put into a small ziplock bag. Squeeze out as much air as I can and I keep it in the freezer.
I keep all dry yeast in the freezer. So far so good. I will let them get to up to temperature before using, but that doesn't take long

 

[ebbelwoi]

I keep all dry yeast in the freezer. So far so good. I will let them get to up to temperature before using, but that doesn't take long

I should consider doing that. It really doesn't damage the yeast?

 

[OleBrewing]

I used a starter with 10 gallons split into buckets. It blew both airlocks twice. And temp was at 68. Kviek is ferocious.

 

[Zambezi Special]

I should consider doing that. It really doesn't damage the yeast?

I haven't noticed it.
I keep my bread yeast (dried yeast) in the freezer as well. No problems there either

 

[Homebrew Harry]

I put a binder clip on them and put them in the fridge inside a mason jar that has rice in the bottom. The jar and rice were baked in the oven to sterilize and to remove moisture. Once in a while I make a new one and rotate them out for freshness.

 

[spittybug]

Well, glad I didn't make a starter! My chugger quit working so I had to call off day. Good thing I hadn't milled grains yet either. Rice got cooked yesterday but is now in bags in freezer. The pump quits pumping and squeals like a pig. I removed impeller and reamed it out but it didn't need it as it spins freely on shaft. Washers are new so I'm very confused. Do the impeller holes get worn so that it gets sloppy on the shaft? Do the permanent magnets lose some of their power with time? The motor and donut magnet are all fine and aligned. Sometimes it goes back to normal after shutting it down, but today; no dice.
I have an email into Chugger to see if they can steer me right. PITA. ***they just got back to me with a link to a repair kit on Amazon. Impeller, 2 washers and the Oring.

 

[kartracer2]

@spittybug This might come a little late but I use that yeast in a 1.084ish, 5.25 gal, extract beer regularly and at just 1/2 a package. At 80*-90*F, sprinkled on top dry, it takes off quick and is done in a couple of days, 10 beer average of 81% AA.
My opinion is you are good to go with a single package.
EDIT>>your post came in as I was typing this, sorry abt your troubles.
Cheers, no cheers,
Joel B

 

[ebbelwoi]

I haven't noticed it.
I keep my bread yeast (dried yeast) in the freezer as well. No problems there either

Is there any actual benefit to the freezer over the fridge?

I buy 500g bricks of Safinstant Red baking yeast for $8 or so. I close the bag with a binder clip (no ziploc) and keep it on the top shelf of my fridge, next to my brewing yeast. I bake maybe two loaves of bread and one pizza a month, and the baking yeast lasts for literally years.

At 500g for $8, it makes me wonder about the $150 for 500g of brewing yeast from the same company.

 

[Zambezi Special]

There is for me as my fridge gets opened more often and in summer the temperature can be way over 44oC (110 oF).
Besides that, I got more freezer space than fridge space
Otherwise: I don't know. It works for me

 

[spittybug]

Holy moly! Brew day yesterday.....10lbs of rice (frozen since last week's aborted brew day), 15 lbs. Vienna and 1 lb modifieds. The rice wanted to gum things up a bit so we had to stir the mash a lot, but no big deal. The HERMS continuous sparging mash works great. We hit all numbers bang on the head. Went into the fermenter at 96 and pitched after letting all temp probes line out. The stated range for the yeast is 77 to 104. That was ~4PM yesterday. 8 AM this morning I have dropped ~35 points and the temp climbed to 102! I've turned the fridge on to bring it down a few degrees to keep it in the high 90s. I'm relying on the expertise/advice of this group when it comes to these temps and the pitch rate! And I though the Mangrove Jack Saison yeast was a beast, it doesn't get happy until about 90*.

 

[kartracer2]

You'll be good. Normally run in the 90's but I've run a couple ferments at that temp (100*) and no problems. It's a sugar muncher alright!
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Zambezi Special]

Kveik will manage high temoeratures.
I had no problems with ambient temps over 40 oC (104 F)

 

[spittybug]

HOLY HELL. 24hrs in and I am within 4 points of being done! This yeast is an animal!!!!!!

 

[kartracer2]

And if you listen real close you can almost hear the yeasties begging for more food !! (LOL)
Cheers.
Joel B.

 

[spittybug]

I'm worried they'll eat my fermenter and come after me in my sleep!

 

[kartracer2]

I swear once the yeast jumped out of the pack and in to the fermenter, an osmosis kind of thing. (LOL)
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Protos]

I also think you will be fine.
I make small batches and don't even weigh it anymore. Just sprinkle a little yeast. I'm sure I get at least 4-5 batches of about 2 gallons done with 1 pack

I do this all the time, with most yeasts. 2.5 g dry yeast to a 1.5G (5.5L, my standard volume) batch. One sachet per 4 batches and it's been working for years.

 

[Zambezi Special]

I do this all the time, with most yeasts. 2.5 g dry yeast to a 1.5G (5.5L, my standard volume) batch. One sachet per 4 batches and it's been working for years.

Thanks,
Yeah should be right. 1 pack for 20 litre or so, 1/4 pack for around 5.
I'm only just starting to try out different yeasts, playing around a bit.
I used 1/2 pack for around 7 litre.
Think it is high time to make volume measurements on my fermenter . Could have gone for 1/3 maybe

 

[spittybug]

Got down to a 1.015 from 1.059 within 36 hours. About 3 points short of target, but I don't drink ABV, I drink volumes! I've let it sit for the rest of the week (had a hip replaced in the meantime, lol...) and will start crashing it shortly.

 

[Yesfan]

I got a packet of the Voss and Lutra (dried) in a couple of days ago. I was hoping to brew this weekend, but it might be two weeks before I get to due to work and upcoming vacation. I've never used Kveik, so I'd like to be around to watch the full fermentation. If it's as ferocious as I hear, I definitely don't want to come back from vacation to see a malt bomb had went off in my basement.

Anxious to try this.....

 

[kartracer2]

@Yesfan In my experence Lallermand Dry Voss and Lutra dry are two very different yeasts. I can pitch 5.5g. of Voss in a 90* F, 1.080 SG.wort and in three days it's done. Sprinkled in dry, it starts quick and just goes to work. A couple inches of krausen cap till done.
Lutra, I pitch it at the whole pack (also dry) into the same wort and it takes 5/6 days. Explosive krausen that fills the FV and wants out but it drops back to a couple inches with-in hours, you can actually watch it grow and then shrink. Really kind of wild to see. I would highly recommend a blow-off set up with it to start with. These are 5.25g. batches in a 6g. Fermonster.
Results? If ultimate speed is needed I'd go with Lallermand Voss. It does have a bit of what some might say is the "Kveik twang". I don't find it offensive but something is there. I'm a little disappointed (maybe spoiled) with the speed of the Lutra but it has a cleaner taste and seems to clear quicker with out any work, just setting.
Bottom line for me is I will always have a package of each in the fridge. The Voss will chew through big worts at a slightly lower cost, Lutra will too I think but a bit slower and but with a little more finesse.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Yesfan]

@Yesfan In my experence Lallermand Dry Voss and Lutra dry are two very different yeasts. I can pitch 5.5g. of Voss in a 90* F, 1.080 SG.wort and in three days it's done. Sprinkled in dry, it starts quick and just goes to work. A couple inches of krausen cap till done.
Lutra, I pitch it at the whole pack (also dry) into the same wort and it takes 5/6 days. Explosive krausen that fills the FV and wants out but it drops back to a couple inches with-in hours, you can actually watch it grow and then shrink. Really kind of wild to see. I would highly recommend a blow-off set up with it to start with. These are 5.25g. batches in a 6g. Fermonster.
Results? If ultimate speed is needed I'd go with Lallermand Voss. It does have a bit of what some might say is the "Kveik twang". I don't find it offensive but something is there. I'm a little disappointed (maybe spoiled) with the speed of the Lutra but it has a cleaner taste and seems to clear quicker with out any work, just setting.
Bottom line for me is I will always have a package of each in the fridge. The Voss will chew through big worts at a slightly lower cost, Lutra will too I think but a bit slower and but with a little more finesse.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Joel B.

Thanks for the valuable info!. Next beer is an IPA (Two Hearted clone). I like hoppy beers and currently don't have any on tap, so...next in line. Would you do Voss with an IPA? Thought about fermenting in the 80s (90s?) since I got a heater for my fermenters. Seems Lutra is better suited for lagers?

I've watched a ton of Kveik videos (mostly David Heath's), so you'd think I'd remember. LOL!

 

[kartracer2]

Would you do Voss with an IPA?

Sorry but I can't help with that at all. I am not a fan of hoppy beers at all so I don't make them. Hopefully someone with that experience will chime in and offer an opinion.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[spittybug]

Well, beer is out and in the process of carbonating. Taste very good. It has a hint of bitterness to it on the back end that experience tells me will fade. I only used 2 oz of Columbus for 13.5gal boil volume. It has a grapefruit note to it, so I wonder if that is the Kveik fruitiness that I've heard about? It fermented hot and underpitched, so the conditions were right for such. 1 packet, ~11.5 gal in fermenter, DONE in 48 hrs max, mostly done in 24 hrs. Crazy stuff.

 

[Yesfan]

I'm going to try to squeeze out a batch when I get back from vacation. I have a "clonish" Two-Hearted ale going with US-05. Hoping to do a similar brew (or a SMaSH) with Voss when I get back.

 

[spittybug]

And it tastes great! The Columbus/Kveik combination yields a low level grapefruit/orange taste that goes very well with the Vienna and the lightness of the beer. This one is definitely in the rotation for summer time brewing!

 

[Yesfan]

@spittybug (or anyone) do you think a Vienna/Columbus Smash would do well with Voss? I've got plenty of both ingredients so was wondering. I could throw in some wheat or carapils and/or Munich in the mix. Looking for a good reason to thin out my older inventory.

 

[spittybug]

Personally, I like to use Vienna in a more limited quantities. It needs something very neutral so as to let its flavor shine through, but no need to have it as a SMASH. A little cara to build some body is always good. The Munich might compete with the Vienna. Not sure about wheat. Certainly would add body, but does it make a better beer in this case, I don't know. Vienna is the base for the easy drinking but flavorful Vienna lagers which dominate Mexico. Just like any mass produced beers they have been dumbed down for the masses, but Vienna/2 row or even rice as I did will let it shine. The Columbus gives a citrus hoppiness that apparently is complemented by the Kveik when underpitched and fermented hot. I'm really enjoying the result of this brew...... Full disclosure, I'm becoming more and more of a fan of simple recipes. Base/key malt/body/head and that's about it. Too much tweaking to get a 'bit of this flavor 3/4 the way through the sample' is BS IMHO. Do the basics WELL and that is what makes great beer. Sure, OCCASIONALLY you will get a 6 malt beer that hits the right cord, but most of them are muddy, lost and/or uninspiring. Same with hop combos.

 

[Yesfan]

Personally, I like to use Vienna in a more limited quantities. It needs something very neutral so as to let its flavor shine through, but no need to have it as a SMASH. A little cara to build some body is always good. The Munich might compete with the Vienna. Not sure about wheat. Certainly would add body, but does it make a better beer in this case, I don't know. Vienna is the base for the easy drinking but flavorful Vienna lagers which dominate Mexico. Just like any mass produced beers they have been dumbed down for the masses, but Vienna/2 row or even rice as I did will let it shine. The Columbus gives a citrus hoppiness that apparently is complemented by the Kveik when underpitched and fermented hot. I'm really enjoying the result of this brew...... Full disclosure, I'm becoming more and more of a fan of simple recipes. Base/key malt/body/head and that's about it. Too much tweaking to get a 'bit of this flavor 3/4 the way through the sample' is BS IMHO. Do the basics WELL and that is what makes great beer. Sure, OCCASIONALLY you will get a 6 malt beer that hits the right cord, but most of them are muddy, lost and/or uninspiring. Same with hop combos.

Since I don't have any rice, I may do the 2row/Vienna only combo. I've got some grain I've had a while I'm trying to run out.

 

[Panderson1]

I just ordered 2 packs. I brew 11 gallons and usually around 1.070. Do you guys think 1 pack is good? I know a little under pitched is a good thing. At 1st i was thinking 2 packs

 

[balrog]

I just ordered 2 packs. I brew 11 gallons and usually around 1.070. Do you guys think 1 pack is good? I know a little under pitched is a good thing. At 1st i was thinking 2 packs

For Voss, dry Lallemand, I typically use 1/3 packet, 11/3gm, for a 4.5 gallon batch, to cause the yeast esters from stress. I get the dark tangerine/orange which goes well with Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy combo.

If you're talking Lutra, you likely do not want to promote the esters. Most folks want Lutra to be clean.

[Edit: Lallemand says 2 packs Voss in 11 gal 1.070 (there their pitch calc is here). Therefore to promote esters, then if I were you I would pitch 1 pack or perhaps even less]

{{EDIT:Edit:: "their". Gawd, I'm slipping. Shame on all of you, and you know to whom I'm speaking, for not calling me out on that.}}