Lagering an ale

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mrphillips

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I'm wondering what differences in flavor might be expected if I stored/lagered a beer for 2 months with an ale yeast like S-05 vs. a lager yeast like S-23. I've never used a lager yeast, so I'm not sure what flavor profile it leaves behind. I'm thinking of lagering a red ale recipe that I've been tweaking, and switching the yeast to S-23.
 
Then it would be a red lager. :D

The big challenge is how well you can control temps and keep it consistently around 50. That, and double the amount of yeast.
 
While lagering an ale doesn't transform it into a lager, it does round off the edges. The resulting product will be a smoother tasting ale.

Lager yeast strains are members of completely different species of yeast. Ale yeast strains belong to a yeast specifies known as Saccharomyces cerevisiae (S. cerevisiae), which includes baker's yeast and wine yeast. Lager yeast strains belong a yeast species known as Saccharomyces pastorianus (S. pastorianus), which was formerly known as Saccharomyces carlsbergensis.

There are currently two major families of lager yeast that researchers believe are the result of separate relatively recent hybridization events between S. cerevisiae and Saccharomyces bayanus (S. bayanus)*. The yeast strains in the Saaz family are diploids (two sets of chromosomes) that contain one set of S. cerevisiae chromosomes and one set of S. bayanus chromosomes. The yeast strains in Frohberg family are triploids (three sets of chromosomes) that contain two sets of S. cerevisiae chromosomes and one set of S. bayanus chromosomes. The Saaz family includes lager yeast strains from the Czech Republic and Denmark (the strain that Emil Hansen isolated at Carlsberg Laboratory is a Saaz-type lager yeast). The Frohberg family includes lager strains from Germany and the Netherlands.

With that said, one of the major differences between S. cerevisiae and S. pastorianus is that S. pastorianus is a much more efficient maltotriose fermenter. Maltotriose is a three-part sugar (trisaccharide) that consists of three glucose molecules bound together by a glycosidic bond. This sugar is formed in the mash by alpha amylase via the hydrolysis of starch. S. cerevisiae is much less efficient at breaking the glycosidic bond that holds maltotriose together; therefore, a higher percentage of this trisaccharide remains in solution after fermentation is complete. The efficient fermentation of maltotriose is the major reason why lager beer is less sweet than ale, as maltotriose is the second most abundant sugar in wort.

Another difference is between S. cerevisiae and S. pastorianus is that S. pastorianus produces fewer esters and more sulfur when used correctly (the S. bayanus genetic contribution allows S. Pastorianus to ferment at temperatures where S. cerevisiae gives up the ghost). Most amateur brewers who are unaware of this difference are horrified by the smell of hydrogen sulfide (H2S) gas the first time that they encounter it. However, H2S production is very common with S. pastorianus. While sulfur is part of the lager taste profile, it needs to be kept in check via good fermentation temperature control and minimizing the production of dimethyl sulfide (DMS) and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) during wort preparation.

* Researcher Diego Libkind believes that the S. bayanus parent of S. pastorianus is a recently identified yeast species from Patagonia known as Saccharomyces eubayanus (S. eubayanus). Mr. Libkind claims that S. eubayanus was accidentally transported to Europe during the Columbian Exchange.
 
This is the fun part of brewing... try it and see. If you can, bottle a few bottles early and lager the rest and see what differences you see. The early bottles will have to be kept very cold to limit the lagering effect in the bottle which would render the test useless.
 
With that said, one of the major differences between S. cerevisiae and S. pastorianus is that S. pastorianus is a much more efficient maltotriose fermenter. Maltotriose is a three-part sugar (trisaccharide) that consists of three glucose molecules bound together by a glycosidic bond. This sugar is formed in the mash by alpha amylase via the hydrolysis of starch. S. cerevisiae is much less efficient at breaking the glycosidic bond that holds maltotriose together; therefore, a higher percentage of this trisaccharide remains in solution after fermentation is complete. The efficient fermentation of maltotriose is the major reason why lager beer is less sweet than ale, as maltotriose is the second most abundant sugar in wort.

Another difference is between S. cerevisiae and S. pastorianus is that S. pastorianus produces fewer esters and more sulfur when used correctly (the S. bayanus genetic contribution allows S. Pastorianus to ferment at temperatures where S. cerevisiae gives up the ghost). Most amateur brewers who are unaware of this difference are horrified by the smell of hydrogen sulfide (H2S) gas the first time that they encounter it. However, H2S production is a very common with S. pastorianus. While sulfur is part of the lager taste profile, it needs to be kept in check via good fermentation temperature control and minimizing the production of dimethyl sulfide (DMS) and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) during wort preparation.

Those two points are the important parts to remember when deciding on a lager vs. an ale yeast.

Another thing that is important really doesn't have anything to do with the strain of yeast, at least not really. "Lagering" means simply to store cold. We call it lagering when we make a lager, but usually "cold conditioning" when we do it to an ale.

A couple of things happen during this cold period. Polyphenols (tannins) drop out as do protein particles. Polyphenols that are associated with hops also will drop out, and that results in a smoother hops bitterness. This is why lagers are often described as "clean and crisp" (in addition to the above points listed by EAZ). Cold conditioning will do very similar things for ales in that respect- drop out more proteins and yeast, and smooth out hops bitterness. You can "crisp up" an ale this ale, and this is often done for ales like cream ales or kolsch.
 
Wow, thanks for the excellent information. I'm in the process of convincing my better-half to commendeer our refrigerator for a couple months. Her favorite style of beer is light lager, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Haha!

Thanks again!
 
Wow, thanks for the excellent information. I'm in the process of convincing my better-half to commendeer our refrigerator for a couple months. Her favorite style of beer is light lager, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Haha!

Thanks again!

Budweiser makes an excellent light lager, as does Miller Light and Coors. Made in America and cheap too!;)
 
With that said, one of the major differences between S. cerevisiae and S. pastorianus is that S. pastorianus is a much more efficient maltotriose fermenter. Maltotriose is a three-part sugar (trisaccharide) that consists of three glucose molecules bound together by a glycosidic bond. This sugar is formed in the mash by alpha amylase via the hydrolysis of starch. S. cerevisiae is much less efficient at breaking the glycosidic bond that holds maltotriose together; therefore, a higher percentage of this trisaccharide remains in solution after fermentation is complete. The efficient fermentation of maltotriose is the major reason why lager beer is less sweet than ale, as maltotriose is the second most abundant sugar in wort.


What if one would pitch S.pastorianus at the end of a ale fermentation, would the lager yeast consume the remaining maltotriose that is left? That should make a ale less sweet.
 
I like to cold condition most of my Ales, makes a different in the crispness or flavors more clean. I've never had a problem with tannins, but the aid in clarity and clean profile in the mouthfeel makes an impact and I get compliments all the time since I started cold conditioning my Ales.
 
Wow, thanks for the excellent information. I'm in the process of convincing my better-half to commendeer our refrigerator for a couple months. Her favorite style of beer is light lager, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Haha!

Believe it or not, American light lager is one of the most technically challenging beer styles to brew. The flavor profile is so delicate that any flaw sticks out like a sore thumb. It took me a year of serious effort to perfect that brewing style. Pre-prohibition American Pilsner (a.k.a. Pre-Pro Pils or Classic American Pilsner) is much easier to brew and is generally accepted by the light lager crowd.
 
What if one would pitch S.pastorianus at the end of a ale fermentation, would the lager yeast consume the remaining maltotriose that is left? That should make a ale less sweet.

At one point in time, German brewers were cold fermenting beer with mixed cultures that contained ale and lager yeast strains. However, the results were unpredictable. Everything changed when Emil Hansen isolated the first single-cell isolate lager yeast culture at Carlsberg Laboratory. Predictability was one of the major reasons why lager came to dominate the beer market. Mechanical refrigeration and pure cultures made it possible to brew year round on an industrial scale.

With that said, while S. pastorianus is generally a more efficient maltotriose fermenter than S. Cerevisiae, there's amazing amount of genetic diversity in S. cerevisiae. I am currently working with a non-commercially available S. Cerevisiae yeast strain from Northern Europe that attenuates like a lager yeast and has a somewhat lager-like taste profile (sans the sulfur), but it is definitely not S. pastorianus.
 
Excellent?????? Really??????


I absolutely mean it. Those three consistently win in the light lager category at GABF (although Pabst does pretty well there too, I forgot to mention that one).

http://www.greatamericanbeerfestival.com/the-competition/winners/

They are also the representative style for the BJCP light lager category.

http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category1.php


Maybe you are commenting more on the OP wife's preferences in beer, than the style itself?:mug:
 
Dear Broadbill,

I'm going to pretend that I didn't just read that. Haha.

Pretend all you want, but if that is what your partner likes, you are probably better off buying a 30 pack for her rather than trying to brew a passable version.

Can't beat the price they sell it for...
 
If the SWMBO is really into light lagers, I'd see if she might be interested in trying a Kolsch possibly. It's a style that I've used to transition a lot of my Bud/Miller drinking buddies into craft beer fans. It's a simple grain bill and easy to make - just gotta watch your ferm temp. With that style, the devil's in the details, but it tastes great.
 
Cold-conditioned blonde ale (Kölsch is an appellation) is definitely a good training wheel beer. A grist with an original gravity in the 11P (1.044) to 12P (1.048) range that consists of 90-95% American 2-Row and 5-10% carapils mashed at 67C (153F) usually does the trick. The hopping level should be kept to around 20 to 25 IBUs, mostly of in the form of kettle hops. One wants to use a clean kettle hop such as Galena, Newport, or Magnum. A 1/2oz of whole cone Liberty or Mt. Hood at knockout* makes for a pleasant continental-style hop aroma without adding a lot of front of the mouth bitterness. In my humble opinion, an often overlooked, but great cold-conditioned blonde ale yeast is the Zum Eurige strain (a.k.a. Wyeast 1007).

* Knockout is the proper brewing term for what many amateur brewers on this site refer to as "flame-out."
 
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