Lagering 101... what are the basics of using Lager yeast

[Yooper]

My lager yeast aren't doing much of anything, and rather than clutter up the page I figured I'd toss my questions here. I bought a Wyeast 2007 activator, and activated 3 hours before use but the bag never swelled (bag was kept at 40 degrees since purchase a week prior). I had no other options since it was sunday and added the "unyeasting" yeast. It has since been 24 hours and I am still getting nothing. The beer is currently sitting at around 46 degrees but it just cooled to that temperature so it hasn't been there long. I pitched the yeast at 70 degrees. Any ideas? Is it possible to add more yeast?

Yes. You can pitch more yeast to get to a more appropriate pitching level.

Check mrmalty.com and click "yeast pitching calculator" to see how many more packages would be ideal.

 

[boo boo]

I'll add my two cents here.

My method involves pitching a decanted gallon starter if using liquid yeast which is at about 45f or so into wort that is at or slightly below 50f. This causes less esters and the percusers to diacetyl to be produced as well as prevents fussel alcohols.

If using dry yeast, I rehydrate about 20 grams in a cup of 110f water for 10 minutes and then stir it into suspension. I then add a little wort at a time to climatize my yeast from the 100f temperature to drop it down slow to my fermentation temperature of 50f.

Besides the fact you are under pitching for a lager and starting your fermentation hot, you don't mention if you are aerating your wort. While it may not be as critical for dry yeast, it really do need to be done for liquid yeast.

My lagers usually take 3 weeks primary during which time I do a diacetyl rest for every lager as it don't hurt to do one anyway. After the diacetyl rest, I'll rack to either a keg or carboy to lager at 34f for a few months.

BTW, if you are doing kit beer from a can, why not try a Festabrew kit. A buddy sent me one from NS and I must say the quality is fantastic.

 

[Brickhouse_Brew]

Thanks for the quick replies, it looks like I severly under shot the amount of yeast I needed. My plan is to add 2 more packs of the Wyeast and let it sit in the primary fermentor for 3 weeks with a dactyl rest. During this time, is a temperature of 40-45 degrees too low? I am kind of limited so its either that temp or 65. Also, do I need to change the temperature at all during the dactyl rest? Also, is it normal for lager yeasts not to activate very well in the bag? Ive never had that problem with other activator packs so I am curious if I got a bad batch.

 

[Yooper]

I believe 40-45 degrees would be too low. You want to be at optimum fermentation temperatures. Here's the specs on Wyeast 2007:

A classic American Pilsner strain, smooth, malty palate. Ferments dry and crisp.

Origin:
Flocculation: Medium
Attenuation: 71-75%
Temperature Range: 48-56F, 9-13C
Alcohol Tolerance: 9% ABV

 

[boo boo]

It will work a lot slower at 45f but it will work. Also when you say you'll leave it 3 weeks, don't count on the time frame much. Beer takes its own time to ferment. Only rack or bottle beer when it is fully fermented. Leaving beer on the yeast will help it completly ferment and clean up any byproducts of fermentation it created on the way that would make your beer taste off.

 

[billc68]

Also, is it normal for lager yeasts not to activate very well in the bag? Ive never had that problem with other activator packs so I am curious if I got a bad batch.

In my limited experience with liquid Lager yeasts (3 tries) they all were slower to swell. I know start them 8-24 hours early. My next batch will have a starter or I will get dry yeast and double it.

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

I want to throw my lager question in here as well, even though I have seen one person answer, I was looking for some more input. I have a Munich Dunkel resting comfortable at about 35 degrees now and plan to bottle the first week of July, which will be 8 weeks of lagering time. After all that time at 36 degrees do I NEED to add yeast at bottling? Or will the yeast (if there is any left in suspension) come back do life and do its job? I was originally thinking of bottling with DME like I normally do then room temp(68ish) for conditioning.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Brickhouse_Brew]

Okay, so I added more yeast and things seem to be progressing nicely, but only when my fermenter is not in the refigerator. The temp. gauge says that the fridge is around 45 degrees, but the airlock only pops when I take the beer out of the fridge. I must not have the temperature high enough so will it turn out okay if I am constantly changing the location/temperature of the beer? Would I be better off leaving the lager to sit in my basement (65 degrees)? Or, should I leave it in the fridge and assume that fermentation is taking place? Thanks for your assistance in helping me make something I can drink and get drunk on 3 months from now.

 

[markg388]

Durango - I say you should add some yeast at bottling just so you can tell me how it goes . I recently had a couple of lagers take FOREVER to carbonate, only to taste funny when they were finally done.

Brickhouse - I'd just try to get the fridge to 48-50 and see how it goes. Lagers don't bubble the way ales do, I wouldn't worry too much about airlock activity.

 

[oceanselv]

Durango,

Adding more yeast should not be necessary. Even with lagering for several months you will still have a small amount of yeast in suspension. This will be enough to carbonate in the bottle. Just remember to adjust the amount of priming sugar for your temperature if you don't bottle at room temp.

 

[22415 Brewery]

I 2nd Oceanselev's comment on the temp during bottling. I recently had a batch of bottle bomb Pilsners because of my excitement and lack of attention to temp.

A few extra seconds of checking your temp and expected carb levels can save 6-8 weeks that could end up lost.

 

[passedpawn]

Just remember to adjust the amount of priming sugar for your temperature if you don't bottle at room temp.

Be careful here. If, at the end of fermentation, you raised the lager to do a d-rest, then that is the temperature (d-rest temp, i.e., 65F) you should be using to calculate your priming sugar addition. So, in this case, even if you've been lagering at 35, you would calculate your priming sugar assuming 65.

The colder the beer, the more CO2 it can hold in solution. However, if one drops the beer from 65 down to lagering temps and there is not further source of CO2, then the CO2 will in solution will not increase. Clear as mud, heh?

 

[markg388]

So let me get this straight, If I did my primary at 50 degrees, did no d-rest, then lagered at 32 for 4 weeks I'll need a different amount of sugar than if I did primary at 50, then d-rest at 65 and lager at 32 for 4 weeks?

If im understanding right, the lager that never saw 65 degrees is going into the bottling bucket with a bit more co2 STILL in it than the one that DID go up to 65, as some of the co2 left suspension at the warmer temperature. The lager that was raised warmer will need more priming sugar to make up for it's lower co2 content? Thanks for your expertise.

 

[passedpawn]

So let me get this straight, If I did my primary at 50 degrees, did no d-rest, then lagered at 32 for 4 weeks I'll need a different amount of sugar than if I did primary at 50, then d-rest at 65 and lager at 32 for 4 weeks?

If im understanding right, the lager that never saw 65 degrees is going into the bottling bucket with a bit more co2 STILL in it than the one that DID go up to 65, as some of the co2 left suspension at the warmer temperature. The lager that was raised warmer will need more priming sugar to make up for it's lower co2 content? Thanks for your expertise.

Yes. That's exactly right. If you raise the temp after fermentation, i.e., to do a d-rest, CO2 will be released from solution. The highest temperature you raise it to, after fermentation, is the temp you need to consider when bottling: even if you have lowered the beer to lagering temps afterwards.

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

Thanks for the input!

 

[brewhan]

This might be a silly question, but what would happen if I didn't lager my lager, and instead just bottled after doing a D-rest? Would anything bad happen other than it not tasting quite as good as it could?

I'm quite keen to get mine bottled up and drinkable, to verify that my sanitation procedures have been successful - I've been having problems, and would like to avoid waiting an extra few weeks to know whether I've got it figured out.

 

[billc68]

This might be a silly question, but what would happen if I didn't lager my lager, and instead just bottled after doing a D-rest? Would anything bad happen other than it not tasting quite as good as it could?

I'm quite keen to get mine bottled up and drinkable, to verify that my sanitation procedures have been successful - I've been having problems, and would like to avoid waiting an extra few weeks to know whether I've got it figured out.

Funny you should ask the question as I was just logging in to ask something very similar. And as the OP, I will combine my question with yours.

I currently have an extract German Pils laggering as we speak, taking up room in my fridge. However I also decided to try another Coopers European Lager using two cans and no added sugars.

The Coopers is nearing the end of fermentation, it has been fermenting at 14-16.5 C (the yeast is rated for 13-21C) for two weeks in my garage in an insulated room, however the outdoor temps are getting warmer and I don't know how much long the room will stay cool (luckily we had a lot of cold nights and a few cold days lately)

I have lots of patience but no room to lager my beer, what if I racked it to the carboy and left it at a coolish room temp for a month or two maybe around the high 60s?

I could at that point keg it and lager it for awhile as my German Pils will be out and I can fit two kegs where my one carboy was. Or I will have finished a keg or two by then.

 

[markg388]

Though this hasn't always been the case for me, I currently have an oktoberfest lagering that has changed a pretty good deal since i turned the temps down. After primary, i tasted it and i didn't taste any diacetyl, but the beer tasted more like pyramid brewery's amber lager (sorry if that beer is only in my neck of the woods, that's the only beer i know that it tasted reminiscent of). It had a nice, gentle malt flavor to it, and I could actually taste the lager yeasts themselves, but it didn't taste very german. I was bummed because i'm a massive stickler for german styles, but the beer was good anyway so I put it down to lagering temps.

3 weeks later and it smells like I just cracked a paulaner oktoberfest, all sorts of melanoidenny goodness going up my nose. My theory is that that 'lager yeast flavor' i tasted about was actually a more potent flavor than the german-malty-melanoiden flavor I was looking for, and as the yeast settle and eat up more of their by products, that distinct continental character was allowed to poke through. This isn't based on fact or science, just my perceptions of dozens of failed and successfull lager attempts.

Reading suggests that not lagering can result in a 'green apple' flavor from acetaldehyde which is a naturally occuring ester that usually gets eaten up. This is a known part of Budweiser's profile, if you taste it carefully enough. In my experience, green apple is one of MANY flavors I wish would vanish with lagering time =D.

So I guess lagering seems to only fix minor off-flavors. If you used just a vial of white labs and fermented at 57 degrees, lagering won't fix your problems. So brewhan, bottle it now only if you're satisfied with the flavor you have today because it will taste more like malt/hops and less like yeast as time goes on. Just check the hydrometer so you don't get bottle bombs.

I don't know anything about keg lagering though.

 

[billc68]

I should have mentioned the instructions with my Euro Lager say to brew then bottle for 3 months, so I assume brewing cool then carboy for a month at room temp then bottle/keg (I do both because my kegs hold all but 1 gal) then after carbonation, chill for a couple of months, it can't be bad, can only be better than the instructions.