Lager fermenting question. Is it too soon to lower the temp?

[ignatiusvienna]

Hey folks, first lager and I have a question about lager fermentation with an Octoberfest (BYO recipe) I’m making. Here’s the recipe I’m following:

4.6 lb of European Pilsner Malt
3.6 lbs Munich Malt
2.7 lbs of Vienna Malt
12oz of Caramunich III
1.2 oz Hallertau hops 60 min
0.4oz of Hallertau hops 20 min
WLP 820 (two packs)

Mash 151 for 60 min. Boil 90 minutes.

I collected 5 gallons and had an OG of 1.050.

I cooled the wort to 45 degrees F and added the yeast. I had used a yeast starter and decanted before adding the yeast.

Over the first three days I slowly raised the temperature to 50 degrees F.

It’s been 16 days and I just switched to the secondary, hoping to start lagering at 30 degrees for the next month. I checked the gravity and the SG is 1.036.

Is this gravity too high to start lagering? Should I wait longer before I drop the temp?

 

[Gavin C]

.. I checked the gravity and the SG is 1.036.

Is this gravity too high to start lagering? Should I wait longer before I drop the temp?

If you used a refractometer, correct your result using an appropriate algorithm. At 16 days of fermentation FG will have been reached regardless.

If you used your hydrometer to measure, the beer did not ferment adequately and if indeed it is finished at 1.03+ it will not be drinkable.

If the former, the beer is done and you can proceed to lager/package per your plans. FG is likely ~1.015

If the latter, it's probably a dumper at an FG of 1.03+

 

[ViciousFishes]

Fermentation range for 820 is 52-58*. Is it possible that your initial cool temps have caused the yeast to stall? What about ramping temp to 52* and swirling your fermenter to rouse the yeast?

 

[dmtaylor]

You should not have racked the beer yet. It's got to still be fermenting if still in the 1.036s. I would have done the opposite and swirled the fermenter to get it back into suspension, rather than removing it by racking. Might be good to warm it up to about 55 F now to help it move along, but don't take it into the 60s until gravity falls below 1.025.

 

[Morrey]

Following up with Gavin C, are you using a hydrometer or refractometer? Are you confident that you are reading the device accurately?

I have used a recipe quite similar with WLP lager yeasts. I started at 1.052 and finished at 1.013 which is actually a bit on the sweet side, but well within the attenuation ranges of the yeasts we are discussing. If you are measuring accurately, and are at 1.036 on day 16, you have something wrong somewhere. Your temp plan sounds acceptable even though a bit on the low side which slows things down slightly, but does the beer look and smell ok when you read the gravity?

 

[dmtaylor]

P.S. Oh, I see now that you used WLP820. Well good luck. That yeast is complete and utter crap and should not be sold. You might be much better off now adding a starter of more lager yeast of anything else other than WLP820. That would help a lot. Otherwise you might never see the 1.020s.

 

[Morrey]

You should not have racked the beer yet. It's got to still be fermenting if still in the 1.036s. I would have done the opposite and swirled the fermenter to get it back into suspension, rather than removing it by racking. Might be good to warm it up to about 55 F now to help it move along, but don't take it into the 60s until gravity falls below 1.025.

Dave, it looks like the OP is intending to crash at this point and not bring up for a D-Rest. I seem to have had my share of disappointments with WL products. I thought it may be just my luck, glad to see I am not the lone stranger here.

 

[dmtaylor]

Dave, it looks like the OP is intending to crash at this point and not bring up for a D-Rest.

Assuming measurement at 1.036 is correct (which is not yet established), it would be WAY too soon to consider cold crashing at this point. Need to get gravity down towards the teens or low 1.020s before thinking about that at all IMO.

 

[dmtaylor]

I seem to have had my share of disappointments with WL products. I thought it may be just my luck, glad to see I am not the lone stranger here.

For lagers I have generally been happier with Wyeast over White Labs. However currently I am giving WLP830 a try again on multiple batches. If these suck, I'll be pretty sad. But they're tasting okay so far. Been in primary for one week now and already down to about 1.011-1.012, from OG of about 1.050 each. If I'd used WLP820, I wouldn't expect them to fall below 1.020.

 

[Morrey]

For lagers I have generally been happier with Wyeast over White Labs. However currently I am giving WLP830 a try again on multiple batches. If these suck, I'll be pretty sad. But they're tasting okay so far. Been in primary for one week now and already down to about 1.011-1.012, from OG of about 1.050 each. If I'd used WLP820, I wouldn't expect them to fall below 1.020.

Just my luck as I have an 820 staged to go for a Munich Madness. Maybe I'd better rethink that. I also have a pack of 860 Helles from the platinum vault. Maybe I better use that instead. I have been brand loyal but can only go this route for so long. Sorry for the

Maybe I'll mix them together in a 1L starter and see what happens.

 

[ignatiusvienna]

I used a hydrometer. Pretty confident about the reading.

 

[ignatiusvienna]

Following up with Gavin C, are you using a hydrometer or refractometer? Are you confident that you are reading the device accurately?

I have used a recipe quite similar with WLP lager yeasts. I started at 1.052 and finished at 1.013 which is actually a bit on the sweet side, but well within the attenuation ranges of the yeasts we are discussing. If you are measuring accurately, and are at 1.036 on day 16, you have something wrong somewhere. Your temp plan sounds acceptable even though a bit on the low side which slows things down slightly, but does the beer look and smell ok when you read the gravity?

Looks and smells ok.

 

[ignatiusvienna]

Fermentation range for 820 is 52-58*. Is it possible that your initial cool temps have caused the yeast to stall? What about ramping temp to 52* and swirling your fermenter to rouse the yeast?

Yeah, thought it was low, but was following the recipe.

 

[Morrey]

Yeah, thought it was low, but was following the recipe.

\

Try 55F and see if you get any fermentation activity, then check in a few days to see if your SG is dropping. If you can get under 1.020, I'd raise the temp for a short 2 day D-Rest in the low 60's before making the drop to cold crash and condition. This short period in the 60's helps the yeast clean up any off flavors plus the final stages of fermentation will finish up getting you to FG.