Lactic Acid: how much?

[Lele]

Hi everybody and greetings from Italy!
I've a very hard water, with 290 HCO mg/lt.
So I have to use acid lactic, because I want to get at least at 40.
But I have to use 6,7 ml/gal, that I think is too much, isn't it?
How much I can use lactic acid without having bad flavor?
Is there any other solution? Phosphoric acid?

 

[Yooper]

Hi everybody and greetings from Italy!
I've a very hard water, with 290 HCO mg/lt.
So I have to use acid lactic, because I want to get at least at 40.
But I have to use 6,7 ml/gal, that I think is too much, isn't it?
How much I can use lactic acid without having bad flavor?
Is there any other solution? Phosphoric acid?

Hi, and welcome to the forum! I'm visiting Italy (mostly Tuscany) later this year in September and October and so looking forward to my first time in Italy.

Anyway, yes, at 6.7 ml per gallon you will be over the taste threshold. Phosphoric acid is flavor neutral, but even so that is a very very high bicarbonate amount. You may find it better to preboil your water, and siphon off of the precipitate to get rid of the high HCO3. Or, you could try lime softening (adding lime and some calcium to get rid of some of the bicarbonate).

In my own experience, using 1 ml/gallon of lactic acid to my own tap water was below the taste threshold but more than that became perceptable in the finished water.

To test it yourself, add 1 ml lactic acid to a gallon of water and taste. Add the second ml, etc, and see where the taste threshold is to you. That's a cheap and easy way to check.

 

[mabrungard]

Most tasters will be able to detect 88% lactic at about 1.5 ml/gal.

 

[Lele]

Thank you vary much
Two other informations:
-how can I know my new water profile after boil? Is there a software or something like that?
-What kind of phosphoric acid can I use during mash? 75%, 85% or 10%?

 

[McKnuckle]

Your new mineral profile after the boil is a matter of concentration, just like the wort gravity. Minerals (and sugar) don't evaporate.

If you had 50 ppm Calcium before the boil, and boiling reduced your volume by half, you'll now have 100 ppm Calcium in the finished wort. And so on.

 

[MagicMatt]

I believe he meant how much bicarbonate was remaining after boiling.

Another idea though, one I used to use before I got an RO system: You could also simply dilute your water with distilled or reverse osmosis water. This would also take care of your question regarding how to know the water profile afterwards - with dilution, it's just simple division.

For instance, if you dilute 50/50 (1:1) with distilled, you just divide your mineral content numbers by 2; you'll end up with about 145 ppm HCO3. That should be more easily managed with lactic acid, but if not you can go 3:1 (75% distilled, 25% tap) which would yield about 290/4 = 73 ppm.

 

[Lele]

I believe he meant how much bicarbonate was remaining after boiling.

Another idea though, one I used to use before I got an RO system: You could also simply dilute your water with distilled or reverse osmosis water. This would also take care of your question regarding how to know the water profile afterwards - with dilution, it's just simple division.

For instance, if you dilute 50/50 (1:1) with distilled, you just divide your mineral content numbers by 2; you'll end up with about 145 ppm HCO3. That should be more easily managed with lactic acid, but if not you can go 3:1 (75% distilled, 25% tap) which would yield about 290/4 = 73 ppm.

Thanks, this is a good idea! I will try it?
In any case, I'm curious about phosphoric acid too. Anybody know which is better to use? 75%, 85% or 10%?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, this is a good idea! I will try it?
In any case, I'm curious about phosphoric acid too. Anybody know which is better to use? 75%, 85% or 10%?

I prefer the 88% version, as it means I use less but I have quite a bit of the 10% phosphoric acid and it's fine I just have to use more.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Buy a simple and inexpensive GH/KH test kit for fish tanks. It will tell you your carbonate hardness (KH) after boiling. Then plug the results of both GH and KH into the free "Kaiser Water Calculator" and use it to build your batch from merely GH and KH values. Amazing what it can do with just these, calculating CA, Mg, TA, RA, mash pH, etc...

Get a kit with liquid drops, not paper test strips. The liquid drops are decently precise.

'Bru'n Water' may also accept GH/KH, but I just got my copy of this spreadsheet and I have yet to explore it.

 

[Hanglow]

Can you get CRS in Italy? it's a mix of sulphuric and hydrochloric acid for brewing. It'll increase the sulphate and chloride content of your water but will have a much lesser taste impact than lactic

 

[Radboud]

Salve my fellow European

I also suffer from very hard water which is not really suited for brewing. In my experience, instead if spending a lot of money on test kits, lab analysis etc. it could be more economical to buy a small Reverse Osmosis filtering system and build your water profile from scratch. Here such a filter system is available for under €50.