Lack of intense hop aroma...

[scottland]

How are you chilling? Some say the speed of chilling makes no difference since large breweries can't chill wort that fast. But I didn't get the hops flavor and aroma I wanted until I used a lot of late hops and started rapid chilling while whirlpooling. Read two articles at mrmalty.com - the one on big hop aroma/flavor and the one on immersion chilling. A ton of great info. He's saying you need to chill the entire body of wort at once. I started using this same IC design, then I made a pot with a recirc port so I didn't have to have the return on the IC. Right now I am chilling to 70 or lower in 6-7 minutes using cold Chicago water. For reference, I do 5 gallon batches, bitter with very small (.3-.5 oz) of warrior typically then I use 5-6oz inside of the last 15 or 10 minutes, works great.


And I would not start adding a lot of gypsum like some are suggesting without knowing your water profile first, everyone's starting point is different. Water chemistry is definitely something to focus on but it sounds like you already are looking at it. Just stick to a balanced water profile until you get these other variables dialed in. Good luck!

I've found the opposite with whirlpool hopping. A hot hop-stand post boil gave my beers a big hoppy punch, both aroma and flavor.

Also, he's using RO water, 2tsp gypsum per 5gal is fine. Borderline-conservative for an IPA

 

[julioardz]

hold up, i get a lot of hop flavor and aroma from 4 oz of late hops, and i consider that a very hoppy IPA, what are your beers like in the USA? ive had imported iipa's and a few sierra nevada pale ales and compared to my homebrewing endevors i get similar aroma and flavor from much less hop additions than you are all suggesting. whats up with that?

Some of us in the US are obsessed with hops. There's been several news and blog stories about it. Here's a slightly related one I came across today. Sierra Nevada is not hoppy by the standards of hoppiness that some hold.

Back to the OP. Are you happy with the bitterness and flavor? If so, then just keep adding dry hops until you're happy. You loose most aroma to boiling. You probably loose a great amount of aroma to CO2 blow off during fermentation as well. Water profile and mashing influences your aroma, but ultimately, it comes down to how much you use to dry hop, considering that's the primary source of hop aroma. There's a brewpub I've tried a few times. If I understood correctly, they have an evolving IPA. The person serving it once tried to explain it, but she didn't seem to know exactly what the process was and the brewer was not around to clarify. It sounds like they have a batch that is continuously dry hopped. They made x amount of barrels and dry hopped it. Pulled out a keg, dry hopped some more, pulled out another keg, dry hopped some more, etc. Depending on when you have it, you get a slightly different beer and it has only tasted and smelled better each time I try it. I've never gotten the vegetal taste that people talk about from my homebrews, but people say you can over do it by dry hopping for too long. I never dry hop for more than 7 days. If this brew pub is doing what I think they are doing, they must have a way of pulling out the old hops and adding more. Personally, I wasn't happy with my IPA's until I dry hopped with 1 ounce or more per gallon of beer. The late additions at 10 and 5 minutes left in the boil helped, but the biggest perceived increase in aroma was with the addition of another ounce of dry hops. I was happy when I reached 1 ounce per gallon. The sooner I drink it, the better too, but it maintains a good amount of aroma for at least 2 months after bottling.

Just a thought, are you sure you're not suffering from allergies? Maybe sniffing the hops prior to each addition has fried your olfactory nerves

 

[Devin]

Some of us in the US are obsessed with hops. There's been several news and blog stories about it. Here's a slightly related one I came across today. Sierra Nevada is not hoppy by the standards of hoppiness that some hold.

Back to the OP. Are you happy with the bitterness and flavor? If so, then just keep adding dry hops until you're happy.

Yes, I have been happy with the bitterness. Just want more hop flavor and aroma.

Just a thought, are you sure you're not suffering from allergies? Maybe sniffing the hops prior to each addition has fried your olfactory nerves

Ha! I sure as heck hope not. I don't ever want to be immune to hop smell. That would suck.

 

[highgravitybacon]

I concur. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale isn't very hoppy from an aroma/flavor standpoint, IMHO. Some good ones that come to mind when it comes to hop aroma for me are:

Odell IPA (I would really like to be able to nail this type of hop profile)
Stone IPA
Marble IPA

!

Odell's IPA is stellar. Totally underrated beer. Just outstanding malt and hop combination.

Heres a link for a potential clone recipe. I wish ODell would be a little more forthcoming about its recipe. Most other small brewers will share a recipe with you.

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=110740

 

[Devin]

Just an update on my latest brew. I doubled up the gypsum for my latest recipe. It was a double IPA. This time, I had 4 oz. of hops during the boil, 2 oz. of hops for a steep of 30 minutes, and then I hit it with 4 oz. of hops during the dry-hop.

Results:

I FINALLY have a brew that has the pronounced hop flavor that I am looking for. The hop aroma is still a little lacking, but the flavor is there.

However, there is a bit of a salty finish that I don't care for. It isn't terribly noticeable, but it is there. I might dial the gypsum back a little bit next time. For my next brew, I am just going to go for a "regular" IPA, dialing back the malt. I am also going to mix up the hops a bit. This DIPA was only Centennial for the aroma/flavor hops.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. Things are heading in the right direction.

 

[HawksBrewer]

Great to see some helpful advice come to fruition. If you want a HUGE hop punch do a 2.5oz hopstand at 160F before chilling completely. You won't be let down.

 

[Devin]

I have read about dropping the temp. of my hopstand before. Haven't tried that yet. I have just been tossing the hops in right after flameout. I will chill it down to 160 on the next batch (I am also going to experiment with some hop tea addition in the keg). Hopville, here we come!

Also, the salty aftertaste is gone. I think it was a bit of the "stuff" that settled down at the bottom of the keg. Only tasted it in the first couple of glasses.

 

[Ridire]

Great to see some helpful advice come to fruition. If you want a HUGE hop punch do a 2.5oz hopstand at 160F before chilling completely. You won't be let down.

Please elaborate. Is this just an addition when cooling gets to 160? How long before you start cooling again, or do you add and just continue cooling?

My IPA is plenty bitter...not citrus enough.

 

[Devin]

Please elaborate. Is this just an addition when cooling gets to 160? How long before you start cooling again, or do you add and just continue cooling?

My IPA is plenty bitter...not citrus enough.

From what I understand, it is a chill to 160, then pull the chiller and toss in the hops and let them steep for some amount of time (my hop stands have been 30 minutes).

Previously, I was just tossing in hops at flameout, and letting them steep for 30 minutes. So, the temps were up above 180-190 for the whole time.

 

[Ridire]

From what I understand, it is a chill to 160, then pull the chiller and toss in the hops and let them steep for some amount of time (my hop stands have been 30 minutes).

Previously, I was just tossing in hops at flameout, and letting them steep for 30 minutes. So, the temps were up above 180-190 for the whole time.

Awesome. So little or no bittering from this? If I take my flameout additions and do this instead I'll get more hop/citrus flavor without significantly upping my IBU?

 

[HawksBrewer]

From what I understand, it is a chill to 160, then pull the chiller and toss in the hops and let them steep for some amount of time (my hop stands have been 30 minutes).

Awesome. So little or no bittering from this? If I take my flameout additions and do this instead I'll get more hop/citrus flavor without significantly upping my IBU?

No need to pull the chiller. Just chill below 180F, turn off the chiller, toss in the hops (I usually use around 2-2.5 oz for this addition) and let it sit for 30-45 min. Because you're below 180F there is no IBU contribution and no isomerization of the hops. This method extracts the essential hop oils without boiling any of them off. It's a technique commonly employed by professional brewers for some time now. One warning: once you start doing it you will never go back!