lack of hop flavor

[tooldudetool]

But Sierra Nevada does bottle condition, as does Deschutes.. Deschutes carbonates with fresh wort I've been told, te bottle conditioning results in a much more shelf stable product due to oxygen uptake by the yeast.

 

[Yooper]

what's the max amount you can use of acid malt? a 1/2 lb gets me to 5.3 according to brun water.

is that a 5 gal batch?

i'm doing a 2.5 gal ipa recipe so that would give me a full pound in a full batch...still @ just 6% of the grist tho without the sugar addition. maybe i'll back it down a bit for this go round and see how it goes.

I just saw this. You want to go no higher than 3% of the grainbill with acid malt. 1/2 pound is a lot- I use a couple of ounces normally.

You could try using phosphoric acid to lower your pH, as that has no flavor impact.

One thing that jumps out at me is that if you are sparging with that water, the alkalinity in it can affect the boil pH as well. I'd suggest lowering the mash pH appropriately, and then sparging with 100% RO water, or acidifying your sparge water as well. I think you'd be much happier with the final product, as the hops will "pop" much more.

 

[Hozonedefense]

im surprised no one brought up oxidation, which degrades hop flavor and aroma like a ma****a. is this lack of hop flavor equal at terminal gravity and in the bottle/keg?
long time creeper, first time commenter.

 

[JordanKnudson]

im surprised no one brought up oxidation, which degrades hop flavor and aroma like a ma****a.

I'm just trying to decide which curse word "ma****a" is... :cross:

 

[Hozonedefense]

Ma f u c k a

 

[joshesmusica]

Hi guys, I have the same problem, but it shows up during bottle conditioning.
The sample taken during bottling was great and flavorful.
1 week after the beer was carbonated, still flavorful but a bit hazy and yeasty.
2 weeks after: carbonization was the same but the beer became even more hazy and the more yeasty obscuring the hops.
My previous IPA batches had less flavor/aroma/dry hops, but the problem developed the same way - too yeasty after 2 weeks from bottling, and when the yeast flavor faded after 3-4 weeks the hop flavor also did, and became nothing compared to the flavor/aroma of the sample.
Usual batch is 6 gal.
I use american IPA hops about 3 oz for 10 min, 3-5 oz for whirlpool and the same for dry hop (5 days)
Ferment at 68-78 F (depending on weather) about 15-16 days, then dry hop 5 days, then bottle (no rack to secondary, no cold crash).
Carbonize with corn sugar at same temp in dark place.
Yeast is usually Nottingham (last batch is being fermented with M-44)

are you racking to a bottling bucket and batch priming? or are you batch priming in the primary fermenter and then bottling? or are you carbing each bottle but still racking from primary? the only thing i can think of a beer being too yeasty with that long in the fermenter and a highly flocculent strain like nottingham is that you're bottling technique is a little off. aka that you're stirring up the yeast and getting that in your bottles. how thick is the sediment in the bottles? if you have the ability to cold crash, i highly recommend that. i have seen significant improvements on clarity after being able to do that.

 

[Ve1ik]

are you racking to a bottling bucket and batch priming? or are you batch priming in the primary fermenter and then bottling? or are you carbing each bottle but still racking from primary? the only thing i can think of a beer being too yeasty with that long in the fermenter and a highly flocculent strain like nottingham is that you're bottling technique is a little off. aka that you're stirring up the yeast and getting that in your bottles. how thick is the sediment in the bottles? if you have the ability to cold crash, i highly recommend that. i have seen significant improvements on clarity after being able to do that.

I bottle from primary fermenter (plastic bucket) with a spigot and a hose. Keeping the end of the hose down to the bottom of bottles to avoid excessive oxidation. Each bottle is injected with a dose of corn sugar syrup. The sediment in the fermеnter is thick, not less than 1 inch. The bucket is aligned a little to keep the sediment away from spigot. But the beer is still never 100% clear during bottling.
Thought about a cold crash, but the 2-week conditioned bottle has no change in haziness and yeastiness after 2 days in the fridge so I doubt if a cold crash can affect that in the fermenter.
Furthermore, the sample from fermenter before bottling has NO yeasty flavor at all, it's great and just needs some carbonation! But after it's been bottled - that's where the problems start.
The priming syrup is boiled, bottles are sanitized with 3% peroxide using vinator (then about 10-20 min neck down on a stand), hose - with peroxide, spigot - with pure alcohol.
As I mentioned above: conditioning time cures theese ills, but the hop aroma is mostly gone by that time. That is the main issue.

 

[deepbluegroove]

why would you use peroxide? I have never heard of that. Peroxide is water with extra oxygen (H2O2)? I would think the peroxide is oxidizing the beer. When you are working with beer you want to minimize contact with oxygen except just prior to fermentation. I only use sanitizer with a bottle brush and then fill the bottles.

 

[Ve1ik]

why would you use peroxide? I have never heard of that. Peroxide is water with extra oxygen (H2O2)? I would think the peroxide is oxidizing the beer. When you are working with beer you want to minimize contact with oxygen except just prior to fermentation. I only use sanitizer with a bottle brush and then fill the bottles.

Unfortunately peroxide is the only no-rinse sanitizer available. I would like to use StarSan instead. I hope that most of the peroxide flows out and evaporates while the bottles are on stand neck down. Local brewers also use a sanitizer based on peracetic acid and peroxide and there are no complaints on resulting beer's flavors. I'm sure my problem is not about the peroxide.

 

[herc1354]

I commonly use 4-6oz without any noticeable taste impact. Ive seen people even use 1lb and didnt notice much

My water is 8.0ph, county water run through a carbon filter, I typically use 1lb of acid malt which brings my mash PH down to 5.3. I've used more in my Wits for a tarter flavor. I'm a huge fan of hop additions after the Wort has cooled to 180 degF. As well try to use Hop Shots for bittering.

 

[jack_a_roe]

My water is 8.0ph, county water run through a carbon filter, I typically use 1lb of acid malt which brings my mash PH down to 5.3. I've used more in my Wits for a tarter flavor. I'm a huge fan of hop additions after the Wort has cooled to 180 degF. As well try to use Hop Shots for bittering.

very interesting...my water has a ph of 8.1 too. a full pound?!? wowzers