Kviek Octoberfest

[Jloewe]

Is there a strand of Kviek that might make a good Octoberfest? I’m in a small apartment and have no temp control
Or lager equipment.

 

[derekp83]

Lallemand Voss Kveik is worth a shot. Made a good cream ale with it. Without lagering, you're using an ale yeast for a traditionally lagered beer anyway, so it's not going to be the same, but with good ingredients and the usual expectations of proper sanitation, I think you'll make a tasty amber beer.

 

[Jloewe]

Good I have a packet of that on hand

 

[derekp83]

If you end up using it, please keep us posted and let us know the recipe.

 

[Jloewe]

I will. It will actually just be an extract kit. But I’m interested to see how it might turn out.

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

I have a Octoberfest-ish ale in primary now. I used Omega Kviek Lutra..

https://omegayeast.com/yeast/norwegian-kveik/lutra-kveik
...I’ve never used it before, but it’s claimed to be an ideal yeast for a pseudo-lager.

 

[Elric]

Or you could warm ferment with 34/70 which is a lager yeast but thrives at ale yeast fermentation temps.

 

[NGD]

Of the kviek yeasts, Lutra would give a more balanced profile. If your apartment is fairly cool (mid 70-low 80’s) and you pitch a whole pack for 5 gallons then the Voss should ferment pretty clean as well.

 

[Ninoid]

Or you could warm ferment with 34/70 which is a lager yeast but thrives at ale yeast fermentation temps.

I try this and not work.
Beer is overpowered with esters.

 

[Vale71]

Is there a strand of Kviek that might make a good Octoberfest? I’m in a small apartment and have no temp control
Or lager equipment.

No.

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

No.

Have you tried the Lutra?

 

[NGD]

Most Kveik yeasts attenuate to much for something like a Marzën/Oktoberfest. Of the Kveiks I’m familiar with and are fairly available in the U.S.A, Lutra would be my first choice and ferment in the lower end of the range.

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

Most Kveik yeasts attenuate to much for something like a Marzën/Oktoberfest. Of the Kveiks I’m familiar with and are fairly available in the U.S.A, Lutra would be my first choice and ferment in the lower end of the range.

Thanks for the response. Just kegged my Lutra pseudo-Oktoberfest yesterday, and From the sample I took, it looks Promising. I did ferment it at the very bottom of the range (@68F).

I put a couple of psi on it and am letting it cold condition for a week or so before I start carbing.

 

[z-bob]

I think Voss would work. However, the last few brews I've done with it have all taken a *long* time to bottle condition. Perhaps because it drops so clear when it's done there's not much yeast left, and then the bottles are stored cooler than it likes (70-ish) But they do carbonate eventually. My last one was a cream ale and it's nice and neutral. And the yeast sticks to the bottle so you can get a clean pour.

I've never heard of Lutra before. Will look it up.

 

[Vale71]

Have you tried the Lutra?

No ale yeast can even come close to a true clean lager profile. Of all the lager yeasts a Kveik yeast is probably the worst possible choice.
If it makes you feel better to call a beer "Octoberfest" then by all means do it, but let's be honest and stop pretending it tastes like something it doesn't even remotely come close to.

 

[VikeMan]

No ale yeast can even come close to a true clean lager profile.

WLP800 does a pretty good job of it.

 

[Vale71]

WLP800 is not an ale yeast. Those genetic studies are all over the place as far as identification goes.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

No.

Have you used all the kveik to make pseudo lagers? There are stains that ferment cleanly without perceptible esters.

 

[Vale71]

Have you used all the kveik to make pseudo lagers? There are stains that ferment cleanly without a lot of esters.

I prefer actual lagers to pseudo ones. Why settle for less if you can have the real thing?

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I prefer actual lagers to pseudo ones. Why settle for less if you can have the real thing?

The question you answered was not asking for your preference. But rather, is it possible to brew an Oktoberfest with kveik that is close to a traditional one. So unless you have experience experimenting with the yeast in question, or you’ve done a blind taste test and can identify the ale yeast brewed fest bier with accuracy then your quick “no“ is your opinion based on what you think you know.
For someone with no temp control, brewing a good lager is arduous if even possible at all, and that is the point of the question, after all, Is it not?

 

[VikeMan]

WLP800 is not an ale yeast. Those genetic studies are all over the place as far as identification goes.

Can you point to a genetic study that says it's pastorianus?

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

I prefer actual lagers to pseudo ones. Why settle for less if you can have the real thing?

Because some people don’t have the proper Equipment to be able to lager and still want to create a reasonable facsimile of a popular seasonal beer style?

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

Because some people don’t have the proper Equipment to be able to lager and still want to create a reasonable facsimile of a popular seasonal beer style?

 

[NGD]

I think Voss would work. However, the last few brews I've done with it have all taken a *long* time to bottle condition. Perhaps because it drops so clear when it's done there's not much yeast left, and then the bottles are stored cooler than it likes (70-ish) But they do carbonate eventually. My last one was a cream ale and it's nice and neutral. And the yeast sticks to the bottle so you can get a clean pour.

I've never heard of Lutra before. Will look it up.

Your experience is pretty different than mine using Voss. One of the reaons I didn’t recommend Voss is the amount of orange/citrus esters I get. I have yet to ferment it below 80 which I’ve heard of instances of it fermenting quite clean. I have few bottles of a Imperial Saison I made over a year ago, aged in a fridge for at least a year that are still cloudy/chill haze. I’d love to have a technique for it to drop clear reliably.

 

[z-bob]

I'm sure I am way over-pitching the Voss, so I'm not getting any esters that I can notice. I actually wanted citrusy esters in one of my beers and it was way too clean.

 

[Vale71]

Because some people don’t have the proper Equipment to be able to lager and still want to create a reasonable facsimile of a popular seasonal beer style?

I was talking specifically about myself and I do have the proper equipment to lager.
If you don't have it then it's fine, it's nothing to be ashamed of. But why pretend you can brew something simililar that is in reality anything but? Does calling it what it is, i.e. a Kveik ale, somehow detract from the experience?

 

[Vale71]

Can you point to a genetic study that says it's pastorianus?

According to the same study that claims it's cerevisiae it also can ferment melibiose. It would be the first known cerevisiae strain that can do that and I don't see any publication supporting this claim. Those so called "identifications" have already been shuffled around so many times that they have lost plenty of credibility. When there are such huge discrepancies between the genetic data and its phenotypic expression the results are really too questionable to be taken at face value.

 

[VikeMan]

According to the same study that claims it's cerevisiae it also can ferment melibiose. It would be the first known cerevisiae strain that can do that and I don't see any publication supporting this claim. Those so called "identifications" have already been shuffled around so many times that they have lost plenty of credibility. When there are such huge discrepancies between the genetic data and its phenotypic expression the results are really too questionable to be taken at face value.

Are you talking about the Gallone study? Or the stuff in this post (post #1) by @sykesey? :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...equencing-of-some-yeasts.670056/#post-8675182
There's also this post where a guy you may know referenced information that WLP800 (or something supposed to be WLP800) does not use melibiose:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...equencing-of-some-yeasts.670056/#post-8675475
ETA: meant to include this one also, pointing to Ale:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4825664/

 

[Jayjay1976]

Since Lutra has been mentioned I thought I'd add my experiences with this strain. 2 weeks ago I brewed a session-strength pseudo lager at 1.042, pitched the Lutra at 90f and it finished out in about 3 days at room temp of 72f. Last Sunday I kegged the session beer and brewed a 1.070 NEIPA, racking it onto the Lutra yeast cake; the airlock was bubbling actively within 30 minutes, by 18 hours the kraeusen had subsided, and at the 24 hour mark the airlock was only bubbling once every ~90 seconds or so. This could have been on tap a day or two later, grain-to-glass in just 3 days. If speed and clean flavors are your goals, building up a big starter with Lutra might be just the ticket.

As for flavors, the session beer turned out really good and clean, not quite as malty as a pilsner but its a light and easy drinking beer and quite tasty.

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

I was talking specifically about myself and I do have the proper equipment to lager.
If you don't have it then it's fine, it's nothing to be ashamed of. But why pretend you can brew something simililar that is in reality anything but? Does calling it what it is, i.e. a Kveik ale, somehow detract from the experience?

Seems needlessly nit picky to me, but to be fair, I’ve been referring to mine as an Oktoberfest-ish Ale.

Traditional Oktoberfest Style Marzen grain bill and hops with the Lutra yeast, fermented at the bottom of the recommended temp range.