Kveik Lutra vs US05 experiment

[easttex]

My experience was with the dried lutra. Are you using the liquid culture? That might be they key also.

For the record, my experience is with liquid Lutra culture and repitches of it.

 

[Drewch]

Such different results from the same yeast ... makes one wonder if there's some interaction between lutra and certain hops or certain water chemistry or some other variable we're missing.

 

[just john]

Such different results from the same yeast ... makes one wonder if there's some interaction between lutra and certain hops or certain water chemistry or some other variable we're missing.

That could be and/or as I suggested above, the yeast isn't a consistent strain. It might be mutating around. I know this is why one should not repitch a harvested yeast too many times. Whether this could happen at the commercial scale I don't know. I suppose if QC gets lax that it could.

 

[Skinny McFadden]

I’ve been reading HBT threads over ten years and never caught one that was current until now so I’ll chime in. I’m curious here cause I did a pseudo lager with Voss in late summer that I fermented in my basement at about 65 ambient and it was awesome, crystal clear in 3 weeks and well regarded at two separate parties. I used Pilsner malt, flaked corn, and galena hops. I bought some dry Lutra and am planning on doing the same recipe just to see if any difference based on my recollection of the Voss beer. I am not sure how muted the orange marmalade from the Voss was due to my lower ferm temp but I had no issues. Last time I used Kveik was in a Chinook heavy IPA over 2 years ago which I fermented in the 80s and it was a mess of hot orange grossness. That beer made me think of Goo Gone.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

My experience was with the dried lutra. Are you using the liquid culture? That might be they key also.

Dried Lutra 1 packet not rehydrated pitched and fermented at 85 . I'm drinking one now and it's really good and legitimately lager like. 80% Briess pilsner, 11% instant rice, 7% Quaker 5 minute grits and 2% acidulated malt for ph correction. 0.5 oz of Magnum at 60 minutes. In the past I brewed with Framgarden, Voss, Hornindal and Ebbegarden and I really disliked all of them. Lutra is completely different than those. I need to try Bootleg Biology's Oslo and Escarpment's Crispy as they are purported to be equally clean kveik strains. Condensation on the glass but it's clear and it cleared quickly with gelatin finings on the keg.

 

[McMullan]

I think the point is, a valid comparison between any 'crikey' strain and a commercial brewery yeast strain leads to the same conclusion; brewery yeast are much better. The 'hysteria' has more to do with marketing and beliefs than anything else. Hook, line and sinker, frankly.

If a brewer wants a genuine Lager with the convenience of sprinkling on dry yeast, after several months assessing it, I'm happy to recommend Diamond Lager yeast.

 

[Skinny McFadden]

I think the point is, a valid comparison between any 'crikey' strain and a commercial brewery yeast strain leads to the same conclusion; brewery yeast are much better. The 'hysteria' has more to do with marketing and beliefs than anything else. Hook, line and sinker, frankly.

If a brewer wants a genuine Lager with the convenience of sprinkling on dry yeast, after several months assessing it, I'm happy to recommend Diamond Lager yeast.

What fermentation temps have you tried with Diamond? It will likely be one of my next yeast purchases.

 

[dmtaylor]

What fermentation temps have you tried with Diamond? It will likely be one of my next yeast purchases.

I've had great results in mid-60s.

EDIT: My system is NOT under pressure. It will complete fermentation quickly, with minimal sulfur and diacetyl, but still it does improve and become more clean in taste after approximately 3-4 weeks.

 

[McMullan]

What fermentation temps have you tried with Diamond? It will likely be one of my next yeast purchases.

Under 15 psi, up to 20°C/68°F, for a nice lager. 15 psi @12°C for a very nice lager. If pressure fermentation is an option, 2-3 weeks grain to glass.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

I think the point is, a valid comparison between any 'crikey' strain and a commercial brewery yeast strain leads to the same conclusion; brewery yeast are much better. The 'hysteria' has more to do with marketing and beliefs than anything else. Hook, line and sinker, frankly.

If a brewer wants a genuine Lager with the convenience of sprinkling on dry yeast, after several months assessing it, I'm happy to recommend Diamond Lager yeast.

That's your opinion and I would somewhat agree with you in that I do traditional lager brews and when I have one on tap side by side with a Lutra version they are better but not by a huge margin by any means. I find your obvious disdain for the yeast amusing and I suspect it would color your perception if someone handed you a good beer brewed with it. To each their own and while these psuedo lagers won't replace traditional lagers for me I like being able to produce a clean crisp delicious beer in a weeks time. Cheers guys

 

[McMullan]

That's your opinion

Absolutely, but also a fact you seem to agree with, nonetheless.

 

[hottpeper13]

I think the something missing is chilling to cold break and then heating it back up if needed for your attempted style. I think all those lipids are causing the unpleasantness.
I always chill to 68*(cold break happens at 70*) and with Lutra I pitch it then and hold for 3 days then to 72-76 to finish and in 2 weeks it's clear and ready to keg and in chamber at 33* for 4 weeks. These are crisp clean and Kolsch like but not lagers. I have a split batch that went on S-189 and M-84,4 week primary and the way the hydro sample tasted I could have put them on tap when carbed,just no room yet.

Lets talk Voss,my new house IPA yeast. Grain to glass crystal clear in 3 weeks.My only other beer ready in that time is Wit.
Chill to cold break, pitch~68* ,put on heater set to 76*-80* and insulated. It will go to 90*-96* finish in 3 days. I let sit for 4 more days then keg and leave at ambient for 1 week then I gelatin fine and put in lagerator at 33* to carb and on tap next week.

The key to making good beers is chilling to cold break, pitching at lower temps and setting to your preferred temp, OXYGEN, and pitching rates. All my Kveiks (crikey) are pitched at ale yeast quantities. I've never gotten any orange and did a successful RIS that hit 13%,was thinking that orange would play well with the chocolate but got none. I also use 1/2 tps Fermaid K at 15 min left in boil for 6 gal batch.

 

[Slim M]

I've had great results in mid-60s.

EDIT: My system is NOT under pressure. It will complete fermentation quickly, with minimal sulfur and diacetyl, but still it does improve and become more clean in taste after approximately 3-4 weeks.

I have not played around much with Diamond yet but I’ve been doing the low to mid 60s thing with CellarScience German and it finishes quick and is very drinkable in a few weeks but seems the best around 5.

I was honestly dissatisfied and disappointed with lutra after all the hype. But hey, it was one time and I might try it again. I see a lot of guys saying they use lutra for lagerish type beer and they mention in their process they usually fermentation cooler and cold store for a few weeks. I guess I always thought Kviek was ani that because it’s not really replacing anything or doing something new in that application. A few lager strains and clean ale strains been filling that role for years. Just my uniformed opinion so brew what you brew and do what you do.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

Absolutely, but also a fact you seem to agree with, nonetheless.

Yeah I agreed completely right? like I said your take is comical. I only chimed in on the thread because of all the YouTubers are lying about their results nobody can brew good beer with Lutra bs in this thread. I thought I would share my own personal success with it but you're obviously not interested so carry on with your propaganda campaign.

 

[McMullan]

Yeah I agreed completely right? like I said your take is comical. I only chimed in on the thread because of all the YouTubers are lying about their results nobody can brew good beer with Lutra bs in this thread. I thought I would share my own personal success with it but you're obviously not interested so carry on with your propaganda campaign.

Well, I'll certainly carry on using appropriate yeast strains for the styles of beer I brew. I always aim to produce the best beer I can.

I would somewhat agree with you in that I do traditional lager brews and when I have one on tap side by side with a Lutra version they are better

My point exactly. Thanks for chiming in

 

[dmtaylor]

Here is a simple fact:

None of the NHC winning homebrewed lagers have ever been fermented with a kveik strain. None of them.

Also, in fairness, all of them have been fermented cold. All of them.

These facts don't prevent me from experimenting. However, I also don't expect to make world class lagers when I bend the rules. Whether they are not great or pretty good or great or outstanding, is completely in the mouth of the beerholder.

Unless you send it to NHC, apparently.

 

[VikeMan]

None of the NHC winning homebrewed lagers have ever been fermented with a kveik strain. None of them.

Also, in fairness, all of them have been fermented cold. All of them.

I'm still waiting for Kveik fermented "lagers" or warm fermented lagers to start winning best of shows in legitimate competitions. Participation trophies are easy though.

 

[BUCKNUTS]

I don't enter competitions because I don't need affirmation from anyone that my beer is good. I have drank a river of beer both good and bad and this Lutra lager with a slice of lime is fantastic after yard work on an unseasonably warm November day here in Ohio. I'm happy that I have the ability as a brewer to make a beer this good in a week with unconventional ingredients and to produce w traditional lager that's stellar as well. Cheers guys hope you're all enjoying brewing as much as I am.

 

[just john]

Seems like it's very rare to have a bad beer with US 05? I've never had one. I wonder how it works at say 75.

 

[Skinny McFadden]

Seems like it's very rare to have a bad beer with US 05? I've never had one. I wonder how it works at say 75.

Two houses ago I fermented without temp control in my basement, always used US-05 in 65 degree or so ambient temp, no temp control and no issues. I moved and didn’t have a basement anymore, ~74 ambient fermentation and all my beers stopped being good. I thought the US-05 threw a lot of unpleasant flavors. Mind you it was probably fermenting at 80 or so degrees.

I invested in an SS brewtech fermenter with temp control and everything after that.

 

[Slim M]

Seems like it's very rare to have a bad beer with US 05? I've never had one. I wonder how it works at say 75.

From my experience years ago with the 05 any ambient temp above 68f and it got fruity. If I stuck in the fridge with the temp probe tape to it and set it at 68 I was good. Keep in mind I haven’t used us05 in like 10 years or more.

I would not waste my time and ingredients with us05 at 75f intentionally. If 75f ambient is what you have to work with then Lutra or something Kviek might be the best option. You also have Belgian & Siasons that like it warm. I guess it depends on what your doing or your trying to make.