Got krausen on my starter this morning, so that's a good sign. From what I've been reading, it's supposed to finish very dry & hint at sweetness. Taste will be interesting to note. Here's a pic of the WL029 starter...
Kottbusser - A style deserving of revival!
- Thread starter Barley_Bob
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myerstyson
Well-Known Member
So question, gents: When I did the gravity yesterday, there was a raft of foam and yeast (?) sitting on top of the beer. I assume this is the krausen I hear so much about (sorry...still a noob).
Should I wait until this sinks before I bottle? Even though (I believe) the FG has been reached already?
Thanks, as always.
If the FG is stable, you could just rack from under it.
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Barley_Bob
Well-Known Member
I always forget how aggressive 029 is, at least as a starter. I had activity within an hour of pitching. Crazy.
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Barley_Bob
Well-Known Member
This happens sometimes, and it's more common with different yeast varieties. If you're at FG, then just rack and bottle. If you cold crashed it first, that yeast would fall, but it really doesn't matter.
I pitched the yeast into the starter with only about 4 degrees difference. I went to bed before it started, so idk how long it actually took to get going.
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I want to arrange it so that those of us brewing it trade a bottle or two so we can sample each other's recipes. I thought that'd be the best way to judge them on average?
You planning on decanting or pitching the full starter? I have done both, but decanted this one. Give the small additions of honey and molasses, I didn't want to dilute them further.
I'll be decanting this one, as it's about 900mL's. I'll leave just enough to make a cream to pour out into the fermenter. Should be by the end of the week. I've gotten good enough with pb/pm biab that this should be really interesting. I can't understand why some styles in Germany, for instance get rare or extinct? They're well balanced & quite sessionable?
It feels like there is a stronger push in the last year or two for more interesting yet lower to moderate ABV beers. Maybe the best new beer I had last year was Gose Gone Wild, a 4.3% Gose part of Stillwater's remix project (Westbrook's Gose with Amarillo and Citra + Brett). In fact, I had a number of fantastic Gose beers in the past year after seeing very little of the style previously.
It is part of the appeal of brewing something like a Gose or a Kottbusser that you don't often experience otherwise.
It is part of the appeal of brewing something like a Gose or a Kottbusser that you don't often experience otherwise.
Yeah, I agree. That's yet another reason I like it here. Lots of ideas floating around that give me other ideas or avenues to pursue. I'm definitely starting to like German beers with their great balance, less hoppiness & different malt flavor qualities. Who knows where I'll wind up next with all of us getting into different beers than the norm?
Imperator85
Well-Known Member
It's interesting...according to Ron Pattinson, Kotbusser was noticeably sour with an acidity similar to Berliner Weisse. Other recipes, however, completely lack that aspect.
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Barley_Bob
Well-Known Member
I want to arrange it so that those of us brewing it trade a bottle or two so we can sample each other's recipes. I thought that'd be the best way to judge them on average?
Still on board! Should be a really fun experiment.
Tag, I want to brew this but my pipelines full right now.. Id also like to see more examples as you guys brew these.
myerstyson
Well-Known Member
I want to arrange it so that those of us brewing it trade a bottle or two so we can sample each other's recipes. I thought that'd be the best way to judge them on average?
Sadly I can't ship or be shipped liquids from/to here (thus all my recipes being DME). I'll try to save some, wax the top, to bring back to the states but I can't promise.
If this beer turns out nice, I'll continue to make/refine it and then be able to share.
In other news, I put mine in my "cold" room yesterday (50-55*) and am still planning on bottling Saturday.
I gotta check my starter today. Been going slowly with minimal temps for a WL029 yeast. Will be brewing it soon though. Haven't seen the report about the sour bit? And I've looked through a lot of listings...
* Found this in another search; http://appliedzymurgy.com/2014/12/27/kottbusser-recipe/ Funny how non of the others mention it being intentionaly soured? Perhaps the fact that it has a very dry finish with a hint of sweetness is being mistaken for souring?
* Found this in another search; http://appliedzymurgy.com/2014/12/27/kottbusser-recipe/ Funny how non of the others mention it being intentionaly soured? Perhaps the fact that it has a very dry finish with a hint of sweetness is being mistaken for souring?
myerstyson
Well-Known Member
Bottled mine tonight. Very pretty, 2-3 on SRM, and very tasty. Like a not crisp, sweeter Kolsch. Got 52 12-oz bottles. Can't wait.
I really gotta bottle the ESB today. It's been so cold the last couple weeks, it looks to be finally done. Then I'll get the mash going for this one in the morning hopefully.
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Barley_Bob
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My batch is brewed and the yeast is pitched. I finally got someone over here to help me with it. Everything went off without a hitch, although I don't think I'm going to hit that SRM.
After what I've read so far, the color was golden to a light amber-golden. If it comes out near the same color as my dampfbier, I'd call it good. I'll be getting started on that one in the morning. Soaking the spigot for the bottling bucket while the priming solution cools for my ESB.
And after further reading & discussion, I think the sour aspect somebody mentioned came from the bit of tartness the molasses gives & the dryness on the back compounded by the hint of sweetness. They must've all combined to give that sensation? I've also decided to do something a bit different & add the honey & molasses in secondary. When did you add them?
And after further reading & discussion, I think the sour aspect somebody mentioned came from the bit of tartness the molasses gives & the dryness on the back compounded by the hint of sweetness. They must've all combined to give that sensation? I've also decided to do something a bit different & add the honey & molasses in secondary. When did you add them?
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Barley_Bob
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I'm adding my molasses and honey to secondary (well, post-primary) too.
Trying to come up with something to use my rinshed Wy1007 on. I think this will fit the bill nicely.
I'm probably going to experiment a bit and toss in some Rye and a smidge of Abbey malt that I have laying around, and probably going to use Santiam and/or maybe some Tett.
It seems hard to believe these beers end up with any significant Honey/Molasses flavor/aroma from 2% and 1% useage rates. The molasses is probably about right but man it has to be tempting to bump up the Honey.
I'll post the final recipe once I brew (in the next few days), I look forward to hearing how everyone else's beers turn out!
I'm probably going to experiment a bit and toss in some Rye and a smidge of Abbey malt that I have laying around, and probably going to use Santiam and/or maybe some Tett.
It seems hard to believe these beers end up with any significant Honey/Molasses flavor/aroma from 2% and 1% useage rates. The molasses is probably about right but man it has to be tempting to bump up the Honey.
I'll post the final recipe once I brew (in the next few days), I look forward to hearing how everyone else's beers turn out!
BFD_BrewGeek
Well-Known Member
Just made a modern interpretation of a double Kottbusser based on Randy Mosher's description in Radical Brewing...the new favorite at the Brewhaus: Prost!
That's about the color I imagine I'll get in mine. @jprather- It seems to me that the honey & molasses are intended to just give a hint of sweetness from my readings. I've left links throughout this thread to read if you like. Very dry finish with a hint of sweetness they say. One said it's a sour, but I think these things combined give a flavor on the back that could be construed as a bit sour?...
myerstyson
Well-Known Member
I added mine as per Zymurgy's recipe, at flame-out.
I've been torn between adding it at flame out & secondary. since the molasses combined with the honey seems to give it a slight sour-beer finish, I though maybe the effect might be heightened by secondary addition. We'll see how it works out?...
I also forgot the recipe has 4ozs acidulated malt in it. I used Weyermann. So that might have some little thing to do with the flavor? Got the grains ground, 7 1/2lbs! Gonna be tight with 2 1/2 gallons of water. Calculation came out to 2.34375 gallons of water ( lbs grain x W)= Qts W/ 4 = GW, or (7.5 x 1.25) = 9.375 Qts/ 4 = 2.34375 gallons water. May have to cut water from 2 1/2 to 2 1/3 to try & get room for both in my 5G BK/MT. Getting ready to heat spring water for mash.
I get no sour note from the flavor. I can't imagine the Acid Malt at that level adds anything other than mash pH modification. I snapped some photos of my Kotty last night. No natural light, but it gives some idea. The head at pour from my tapper was at the rim. Reduced to half in about 3-4 minutes.
From using the Zymurgy recommended amount of honey, I am not sure that I would personally want any more flavor additions than what I have now. My current policy when I want to add MORE of something I like is to go base and then adjust next time. Not fun to overdo an ingredient and have 5 gallons to slog through (from past experiences).
From using the Zymurgy recommended amount of honey, I am not sure that I would personally want any more flavor additions than what I have now. My current policy when I want to add MORE of something I like is to go base and then adjust next time. Not fun to overdo an ingredient and have 5 gallons to slog through (from past experiences).
Yeah, I was trying to imagine where that fella got the sour thing from listed in a link? I postulated some theories anyway. Dang computer weirdness took a couple hours I could've been brewing. Gotta get the mash water going now that it's fixed. Damn days shot already. But looking at my recipe in BS2, I now think I'll get that burnished gold color you have there. Maybe a slight amber blush, but we'll see. Gotta get this going.
******* ******* microsoft engineer from avast that was fixing my computer at the last minute erased BS2 & all my files! I had the grains crushed & everything! !@#$#%%$&(O&^%$#@!@$#$^%^* I NEED HEEEEEELP!!!*** got the main man at Beersmith to help. got it back. Lucky for that ****** engineer that, at the last second before signing off, erased BS2...******* ho.
Whoops. Sounds like you got them all back though, unless I'm reading it wrong. Brew that baby up!
Yeah, the Beersmith owner/originator is a cool guy. Got it all back. Good thing that "engineer wasn't too thorough. Got everything back out this morning to warm up again. Crushed grains sealed in bucket. Gonna try this again in a lil while.
I'm heating 2 1/4 gallons of spring water for the mash now. Going for 153F. BS2 says 152.1F mash temp. So 153 will be close enough, since temp will undoubtedly drop during the 1 hour mash. * Mashed in @ 154F with the 7 1/2lbs of grains in 2 1/4G of spring water. I think with so much grain in there, the temp might stabilize @ 153F. BS2 said 152.1, so pretty close.
Mash started about 153F, ended an hour later @ 149F. Sparged/stirred 10 minutes @ 168F in 1 1/4G spring water. Only got about 1/2 gallon hot break this time, but lasted about a minute into the boil. .65oz Magnum added for bittering & 12:32PM. Half Whirlfloc tablet @ 15 minutes, Hallertau & Czech saaz @ 3 mins left. 2:46PM, cleaning the shorty fermenter juan more time, since it was merely rinsed last time & spigot getting cleaned & sanitized anyway. Wort chilled & ready. Just decant starter, stir & pitch. Then it's time for a beer! Looks like my time will be about 4 1/2 hours today. Not too shabby for an old fart...
Got an OG of 1.054 against estimate of 1.061. Maybe didn't stir it enough? My efficiency is usually through the roof. But this way, it is a bit closer to the original. Close enough.
Got an OG of 1.054 against estimate of 1.061. Maybe didn't stir it enough? My efficiency is usually through the roof. But this way, it is a bit closer to the original. Close enough.
myerstyson
Well-Known Member
I also got a different OG (1.042) vs the estimate in the Zym article. Worried me at first, but now, after tasting the (final) gravity sample last week, I am not worried. I can't wait till I can taste it!
You should've seen this stuff after being strained into the fermenter last evening! Looked like cold hot cocoa. Something to do with the oats I think? I was also very concerned about the WL029 yeast being half frozen by the time all the ingredients got delivered. I guess the 800mL starter-well, actually more like 850+-definitely helped matters in that department. I decanted it down to about 200mL for pitching. By 7:21 this morning, it started bubbling slowly after covering it with a tee shirt a bit earlier. It's currently at a solid 64F, one degree below the stated sweet spot.
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Barley_Bob
Well-Known Member
I just got home from a conference yesterday, so I missed three days of fermentation. I checked the bucket last night, and there is not a huge blow-off mess everywhere. What a relief! But it seems like everything took care of itself while I was out of time. My kottbusser is growing up.
