Kolsch Recipe, please take a look?

[luckybeagle]

Hello,
I've never brewed a Kolsch before and was hoping to get some opinions on this recipe that I've put together following Josh Weikert's guidelines found here. I'm concerned about the gravity and the beer feeling too thin/flavorless, but it does fall within all BJCP guidelines according to brewersfriend.

10 gallon batch (60 minute boil):

• 10 lbs German Pilsner Malt
• 6 lbs Vienna Malt
• 6 ounces Acidulated malt
• Wyeast 1007 German Ale yeast (large, decanted starter)
• 60 min addition of Nugget for bittering up to 20 IBU
• 1 oz Hallertauer Mittelfruh at 5 minutes
• Whirlfloc and yeast nutrient at 10 minutes

Process and specs:

• Mash 60 minutes at 152
• Ferment at 60F with diacetyl rest at end, likely going to keg it
• OG 1.044, FG 1.010 (75% apparent attenuation), 4.41% ABV (unless 1007 attenuates better?)

Can you see any flaws or problems I might encounter? I'm not opposed to a table sugar adjunct but also don't want to decrease body further if that might be a potential outcome.

Thoughts?

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I just brewed one and used the 2565 Wyeast Kolsch yeast and its great. I also chose to go with 100% hallertau. I used lactic acid instead of acidulated, I believe either will yield the same effect. Soft water is key and a gentle boil

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I'm no expert on Kolsch, but I think you have waaay too much Vienna in the grist.
I mean, I'm a fan of Vienna, and I buy it by the sack, but that's too much for a Kolsch. A tasty pale beer:yes, Kolsch: no.

That is, IF you are looking for a classic Cologne-style Kolsch. If you are rolling your own or looking for an Americanized version, then anything goes.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm no expert on Kolsch, but I think you have waaay too much Vienna in the grist.
I mean, I'm a fan of Vienna, and I buy it by the sack, but that's too much for a Kolsch. A tasty pale beer:yes, Kolsch: no.

That is, IF you are looking for a classic Cologne-style Kolsch. If you are rolling your own or looking for an Americanized version, then anything goes.

I'm doing a Kolsch that has 50-50 Pils malt and 2-row. My son does a variation that has 100 percent Pils malt.

Mine is different because I'm doing LODO techniques which accentuate the Pils (too much if used 100 percent), and I added a pound of Munich malt to add a little flavor/complexity.

I think you're right, the Vienna may be too much if looking to do a traditional, style-accurate Kolsch.

****
My son works for a guy from Germany. I gave him some of my Kolsch because I wanted a German to pass judgment on it. He "described it as surprisingly pleasant. A Kolsch that has flavor for once. Light and very drinkable, but still with an undertone of hoppiness giving it some character."

It was noted that the Kolsch's in Germany were roughly equivalent to our US macro lagers, just fairly tasteless and easy-drinking.

The German guy said it doesn't really match Kolsch's stylistically, because it has too much flavor. He said that mine is light and easy-drinking, but has a second layer that gives it character.

He didn't have a good comparison style; it doesn't fit easily into anything. It's just...good.

My son was in a meeting w/ the German and his team. End of the day Friday, did some sampling of the Kolsch. The verdict? They asked that I send down a keg.

****

So, OP wants a Kolsch that has more character? Cut the vienna in half, add that back to the Pilsner malt. And, like @ApolloSimcoe I'm using a Kolsch yeast, either WLP029 or Wyeast 2565.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I don't have my recipe in front of me but I believe that I did 97% Pilsner and 3% Vienna

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Yeah, if you don't have access to or don't want to use Kolsch malt, drop the Vienna to 5% or less, and maybe add up to 5% wheat malt.

 

[Beernik]

I agree, way too much Vienna. Besides having the wrong flavor, it will be too dark. 5% or less Vienna is a good target.

 

[couchsending]

Best part about 1007 is it doesn’t produce diacetyl, no need for a rest. Local brewery uses it to turn and burn beers fast. Once it hits terminal they crash it.

Worst part is it doesn’t flocc at all. Needs long lagering or fining to clear.

Wlp029 is easier to use IMHO.

Cut down the Vienna a bit.

 

[dmtaylor]

I agree with all the others. Personally I would replace at least half the Vienna for Pils.

1007 will make a fantastic Kolsch but as @couchsending mentions it will end up hazy. Gelatin can be added at very end of fermentation to help settle out the yeast. It does attenuate high around 79% which should bring you to FG 1.009 and 4.6% ABV.

 

[luckybeagle]

Thanks everyone! I hear you all loud and clear on the Vienna reduction. The only problem with that (d'oh!) is that I milled all the grains at once at the LHBS and threw them in one large bag. I didn't think much about scrutinizing the grain bill since Weikert's recipes have always produced solid beer when I've followed them, but it sounds like it's not traditional or within the guidelines of a classic Kolsch given the high percentage of Vienna. I was mostly concerned with producing a beer too low of gravity/with too little body on a 10 gallon batch and was hoping I wouldn't have to scale down my batch size to 9 or 8 gallons (or add sugar) to increase my OG.

Having never brewed with Vienna, do you think this will produce something less palatable than a higher Pils version? I'm ok if it doesn't fit guidelines perfectly and simply want a nice summer beer that has some of the characteristics I like in a good Kolsch. I recently brewed a dunkel that had way too thin of a mouthfeel. I scaled that one up to 11 gallons from 10 and found that it still hit all of the BJCP guidelines, but it is toeing the line of being watery which was kind of a letdown. I don't want to replicate that mistake on this beer.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Thanks everyone! I hear you all loud and clear on the Vienna reduction. The only problem with that (d'oh!) is that I milled all the grains at once at the LHBS and threw them in one large bag. I didn't think much about scrutinizing the grain bill since Weikert's recipes have always produced solid beer when I've followed them, but it sounds like it's not traditional or within the guidelines of a classic Kolsch given the high percentage of Vienna. I was mostly concerned with producing a beer too low of gravity/with too little body on a 10 gallon batch and was hoping I wouldn't have to scale down my batch size to 9 or 8 gallons (or add sugar) to increase my OG.

Having never brewed with Vienna, do you think this will produce something less palatable than a higher Pils version? I'm ok if it doesn't fit guidelines perfectly and simply want a nice summer beer that has some of the characteristics I like in a good Kolsch. I recently brewed a dunkel that had way too thin of a mouthfeel. I scaled that one up to 11 gallons from 10 and found that it still hit all of the BJCP guidelines, but it is toeing the line of being watery which was kind of a letdown. I don't want to replicate that mistake on this beer.

At around 37% Vienna, It will make a really nice pale beer - along the lines of a slightly more colorful than usual Helles. Go ahead and make it and you won't be disappointed.
Just don't call it a Kolsch.

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks everyone! I hear you all loud and clear on the Vienna reduction. The only problem with that (d'oh!) is that I milled all the grains at once at the LHBS and threw them in one large bag. I didn't think much about scrutinizing the grain bill since Weikert's recipes have always produced solid beer when I've followed them, but it sounds like it's not traditional or within the guidelines of a classic Kolsch given the high percentage of Vienna. I was mostly concerned with producing a beer too low of gravity/with too little body on a 10 gallon batch and was hoping I wouldn't have to scale down my batch size to 9 or 8 gallons (or add sugar) to increase my OG.

Having never brewed with Vienna, do you think this will produce something less palatable than a higher Pils version? I'm ok if it doesn't fit guidelines perfectly and simply want a nice summer beer that has some of the characteristics I like in a good Kolsch. I recently brewed a dunkel that had way too thin of a mouthfeel. I scaled that one up to 11 gallons from 10 and found that it still hit all of the BJCP guidelines, but it is toeing the line of being watery which was kind of a letdown. I don't want to replicate that mistake on this beer.

At some point you're going to have to ask yourself whether you're going to be a slave to style, or produce good beer you want to drink. Maybe you can do both, but if you can only have one, what would you choose?

My "Kolsch," which according to my German acquaintance, isn't really a Kolsch, doesn't mean it's not a good beer. It's an excellent beer, but it has more flavor despite its drinkability than the style would suggest.

I've bought a few commercial Kolsch's lately to see how mine stacks up. Verdict? I'd never buy any of the commercial ones again. Mine, however, may not ever win a brewing contest because it's not, exactly, what a Kolsch is supposed to be.

*****

There's a local "guru" of homebrewing I've asked to assess my beers. The first thing he wants to know is what the style is, and then, as if I'm in a contest, he starts evaluating it in terms of style guidelines.

I was stunned by this; all I wanted to know is whether the beer was good, and he was picking at it in terms of some guideline. Yeah, it was a little less carbonated than the style, but I don't like it carbed quite that much. And maybe it has a little more of this flavor profile than one might expect, but I brewed it that way on purpose.

For this guy, if he can't stick it in a style, apparently he can't assess it. Well, OK. But I'm trying to brew beer I want to drink (and others, too), and hitting a style is not as important to me as people coming back and wanting a second one.

*****

I think it's normal and natural for new brewers to focus on what you might think of as measurables. Things like gravity, brewhouse and mash efficiency, ABV, and, of course, adherance to style. I don't think that's bad, as ultimately it's a focus on process, and if you get the process down, the rest of this brewing thing is comparatively easy.

And I get how competitions have to have some sort of benchmark against which to compare entries.

But in the end, to me at last, being a slave to style is unfortunate. I play with my recipes, and I'm not sure there's a commercial beer out there that matches them.

So--brew up your beer. It's not going to be bad, it's just not going to be what you think it was going to be. And who knows? You might really like it, enough that it goes into your rotation. If that happens, come back here and tell us, and include the exact recipe. And if it doesn't, learn from it, consider how to move it toward what you wanted it to be, and try again.

Good luck and let us know.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Absolutely agree with Mongoose.
Style should be secondary to good beer. Style guidelines are only important for labeling (as described below) and competition purposes.
I make quite a few beers that aren't strict to a style, but are inspired by one.
That said, one should not call anything something it isn't. You don't go around calling your dog a horse, or entering a dog show with a Poodle in the Great Dane category, that's just silly.

So this won't be a Kolsch, so what? I bet it will be very tasty (I happen to make a lot of beers using not much more than Pilsner and Vienna malts).

I cringe every time I see Devil's Purse "Kolsch". It's a tasty beer, but there is nothing about it that is remotely reminiscent of a real Kolsch. But, if you don't think "Kolsch" when you drink it, it's a good brew. An example of them calling their Poodle a Great Dane, when it isn't.

 

[Beernik]

My opinion, the Venn diagram between “good beer” and “beer in style” probably has a 25% to 50% overlap.

Styles have histories and those histories are why the beers have the characteristics they do. If you look at it that way, something like BJCP is a good baseline to build a recipe around. It’s a good place to start, but it’s not necessarily where you want to end unless you are specifically brewing for competition.

That said, one of the beer styles I grew up drinking was Kolsch and if there is one style I have definite opinions on, that’s it. Anytime I see it on a brewery’s menu, I order it and base my opinion of the brewery on it.

Being me, I’d probably add another lb or two of Vienna and maybe a 1/2lb of Victory and make it more like a Helles or light Helles Bock.