Kolsch Problem

[leghorn]

Ok - last week I brewed a Kolsch (recipe below) - tweaked from some recipes I found on this site. I used WL029 Kolsch Ale, and made a starter. Today (8 days after brewing and pitching) I took a sample, and tasted an overwhelming amount of bubble gum flavor. Now, I can't find where this is expected of Kolsch, so anyone know why I may be tasting that flavor? Will a long diacetyl rest fix it?

Kolsch recipe (Partial Mash)
3lb XLDME
3lb Bohemian Pilsner
1lb Vienna Malt
1lb White Wheat
1lb Rice Hulls
1oz Tettnang (60min)
.5oz Saaz (30 min)
.5oz Spalter (30 min)
.25oz Saaz (5 min)
.25oz Spalter (5min)
WL029 Kolsch Ale Yeast

Mashed at 150
Ferment was at 68-72

Help?

 

[Loup]

the flavor is from esters put off by the yeast during their growth phase. The fact that you have an overwhelming bubble gum flavor would indicate that you fermented at too high of a temperature. I have no experience, but I've heard letting it age for a while will decrease the bubble gum flavor

 

[WBC]

When you ferment at the yeast's recommended temperature are you measuring the beer itself or room temperature? The beer can get 5 degrees or more than room temperature due to the fermentation's exothermic heat and so that is not good. The first week to 10 days are the most critical and so next time place your fermenter in a water bath and use ice to maintain the temperature you need. That is why I finally switched to digital temperature controlled freezers to ferment my ales and lagers. Several people have posted that they use large picnic coolers with a water bath and ice as they hold their temperature a lot better than a beer tub.

 

[BarleyWater]

That temp is too warm for a kolsch anyway. Kolsch prefers to be fermented in the mid to upper 50s to keep the super clean flavor profile that it's known for, I actually don't ferment anything quite that warm, with 68 being about my max temp. A bit of lagering may help, but I have found that it is very difficult to get rid of esters that are a result of too warm fermentation temps. A diacetyl rest won't help, because it isn't diacetyl that your tasting.

Of course, it may be no problem at all. It is only a week old, so it may just be a flavor that will mellow out with some time. If it's done fermenting, cool it down to it's lagering period and see what it's like in a few weeks, time can do wonders for beer.

 

[Yorg]

Actually, sorry BarleyWater, Kolsch is not supposed to be "super clean". It is noted for subtle fruity aroma and flavour. But 'subtle' is the operative word.
You should have fermented at 14-15C at most (high 50s I think.)
It will change because it is so green, as BarleyWater points out, but you are likely to keep most of those esters.
Won't be a good Kolsch, but it should still be a good beer.
Cheers.

 

[quickerNu]

Yeah, kolsch be is my favoritist. Way too warm for a Kolsch, but, 8 days in is early for a lager. Can you get it into the fifties, oohh say, for another few weeks? After that, Lager the hell out of it....mmmm, for a month or so. It may then be kolsch-ish.
Tell me you used soft water...?
Some old style kolschs ferment warm for a while then lager. Research time!!

 

[BarleyWater]

Actually, in most commercial examples, it is super clean for an ale. The hint of fruity-ness that is noted in some places (like the BJCP style guidlines), is a result of the super clean profile, that can allow the perception of a faint fruity hint show through. The flavor of fruitiness should be a flavor that you don't notice, unless you are specifically looking for it.

Most ales will produce fruity flavors from the yeats, and kolsch yeasts were cultivated to be able to brew very clean, lager-like beers, while still being able to perform at slightly warmer temps and keep the clean profile. Since kolschs are lager like in their profile, the ever so faint hint of fruitiness is more present than it would be in a light lager like a Dortmunder Export. It has a far cleaner profile than almost any ale, but since it has this ale-like flavor in spite of being very lager like, they note the hint of fuitiness in guidlines, which leads brewers to believe that there should be a pronounced fuity flavor or aroma.

 

[quickerNu]

Soooo, BW, what temps do you like to ferment your Kolsch?

 

[BarleyWater]

mid to upper 50s

About 56-58.

 

[quickerNu]

For how long? Then do you lager afterwards?
Just trying to expand my repitoire

 

[BarleyWater]

Two weeks, then I lager for three at about 36 degrees. I try to keep it in the 60s while bottle conditioning also (I can fit half my batch in my fermentation fridge), since it's such a delicate style I don't want any esters popping up from the bottle conditioning, not that they will, I just don't want to take any chances. Still takes about the same amount of time in bottles to carb up, but I give it a little time in the fridge after conditioning, and it is just great.

 

[quickerNu]

Groovy, I do about the same but drag my lager out until I feel like washing bottles. Do you think time will help OP's brew?
55 ish time or 36ish time?

 

[BarleyWater]

I would lager longer, but I'm impatient, and I only have one fridge that I use for ales and lagers, so more lagering time equals less fermentation time for something else. Although it's finally getting cool enough to possibly brew ales without the benefit of temp control.

Time may help, but fermentation esters are the one thing that I don't ever seem to be able to have mellow out. I think the best bet would be to slowly take it down to lager temp now, since the warmer fermentation temps have probably allowed it to already finish, quicker than it would have in the 50s. I wouldn't drop it right down to lager temp, because that may shock the yeast, and they should stay active to help clean things up. Over a few days, bring it down to temps, and hold it there for at least a few weeks.

 

[phissionkorps]

I've got a sticke alt going right now. It's been at 58 and gradually decreasing to 50 for a week. I think I'll wait another week, do a diacetyl rest, then lager for 5 weeks for as cold as I can get it.

 

[Brew-boy]

To warm a ferment and I would of back off on the hops.

 

[Nablis]

Lager it for a couple weeks, if the flavor is still there repitch some active yeast and that might clean it up. Jamil talked about this for fixing acetlyaldehyde, so it might work for this.

 

[BarleyWater]

Acetylaldehyde is an intermediate compound in the production of ethanol that naturally gets cleaned up. Esters are any number of products that are the result of said production. It's not something that can get cleaned up like acetylaldehyde or diacetyl, but the lagering may be able to help "mellow" the flavor.

 

[denimglen]

About 56-58.

White labs say the yeast (WLP029) may have trouble fermenting under 62.

Just wondering...are you using the same yeast? Pitching more than usual at colder than 62? Allowing fermentation to kick off then dropping temps?

No worries if they're your kolsch-secrets and you don't want to share

 

[BarleyWater]

It's no problem to go that cool. They say that mostly because you really need to have experience with yeast fermentations, and under 62 it needs closer care. From there website

Fermentation temperature: 55° F and 68° F
Attenuation: At 55° F, 79%; at 68° F, 78%
Hours to get to 50 percent attenuation: At 55° F, 48 hours; at 68° F, 30 hours

An audio selection from Chris White on the site discusses the yeast, and does state that care needs to be taken to ferment cool, but is done quite frequently. It produces more of the lager-like characteristics at the cooler temp.

 

[leghorn]

To warm a ferment and I would of back off on the hops.

Now that it's been in the bottles for a couple months - this is likely the culprit. In sips, a strange aftertaste shows up; in gulps it's not noticeable. I'm taking it to the next local homebrew club meeting to get some opinions, but I think Brew-Boy nailed it. Also since it is such a light beer, and I did a PM, I wonder if the DME "twang" effect is showing through.

Also, Spalt is an unusual hops with a different flavor than I expected (like noble hops).