Historical Beer: Kentucky Common "Kiss Yer Cousin" Rye Kentucky Common Ale

[SirHC_]

Did a 10 gallon batch yesterday, pitched US05 in one, s-23 lager yeast in the other, steam beer style.
I also did a bit of a partigyle and used the 2nd runnings (1st batch sparge) for a rye pale ale... thing. Will be dry hopped with a bunch of Citra, 2-3oz for the 3 gallons. I find I like the Citra/rye combo.

 

[Bier1080]

Did a 10 gallon batch yesterday, pitched US05 in one, s-23 lager yeast in the other, steam beer style.
I also did a bit of a partigyle and used the 2nd runnings (1st batch sparge) for a rye pale ale... thing. Will be dry hopped with a bunch of Citra, 2-3oz for the 3 gallons. I find I like the Citra/rye combo.

How did the two turn out? Did you find you liked the steam beer over the ale more?
What have people been fermenting the steam versions at? . . ~64? Sorry for all the questions. Want to make this soon and trying to figure ale or lager or both

 

[SirHC_]

How did the two turn out? Did you find you liked the steam beer over the ale more?
What have people been fermenting the steam versions at? . . ~64? Sorry for all the questions. Want to make this soon and trying to figure ale or lager or both

Hard to tell so far, just packaged them up yesterday...
Same OG (1044) and FG(1008), fermented at basement ambient temperature. Basement is 64 so fermentation was around 67 I'd guess. Left them sitting on the cold cement basement floor to help the temps stay low. They certainly smelled different at bottling but won't really know for 2 weeks! Try both and decide for yourself, that's what I did!

 

[Bier1080]

Awesome thanks! Still would like to hear your thoughts when they're ready

 

[z-bob]

I bottled mine 2 weeks ago. It's carbonating *very* slowly, according to the firmness of the two plastic bottles. (bottles are stored on the basement steps, probably a little too cold.) I will open one at 3 weeks whether it's ready or not. When I tasted it at bottling time, it was kinda watery and had very little hops flavor. I'm hoping a little fizz takes care of that.

 

[z-bob]

I opened another bottle today. It's still flat (I think I got a batch of bad bottle caps) but I can taste the rye now. I like it! Going to put one of my plastic twist-off cap bottles in the fridge. I know they are carbonated; the bottles are hard. (they are bigger bottles is why I didn't open them first)

 

[Numsquat]

I've done this recipes for 50+ gallons, adjusted the ABV from 3.5% to 6.0%. HAve used grits since I've moved to Florida. I really like it in the 5-5.5ABV range using a bigger pitch of US-05 for 5 gal (1.5 packets per 5 gal). I love rye (love me rye whiskey/bourbon) and this recipe also appeals to my "non-craft beer" friends. Yeungling is big around here and this goes over better than the Yeungling.

 

[SirHC_]

Hmm, mine are also under carbed after 2 weeks though not by much. I agree they have much more flavor carbed and chilled than the hydrometer sample. Very tasty, a good bitter bite that lingers a touch. Not much caramel. Definite rye.
Mines just a touch sour, I did an overnight mash (~14hrs) before I drained the first runnings. Ill try again in a week when they will hopefully be fully carbed.

 

[z-bob]

Hmm, mine are also under carbed after 2 weeks though not by much. I agree they have much more flavor carbed and chilled than the hydrometer sample. Very tasty, a good bitter bite that lingers a touch. Not much caramel. Definite rye.
Mines just a touch sour, I did an overnight mash (~14hrs) before I drained the first runnings. Ill try again in a week when they will hopefully be fully carbed.

I opened my plastic bottle tonight and it was undercarbed after over 3 weeks! It did have some carbonation... I wonder, with all that corn in the grist if it could use some yeast nutrients? I will try that next time.

 

[SirHC_]

Windsor on the left, s-23 on the right.
Both are 12oz pours, neither have much head retention. Nice and foamy at first but quickly dissipates to almost nada.
For all their similarities they do taste different.
Both are rye up front and a little sweet. The steam beer tastes a bit maltier/smoother to me whereas the windsor batch is a little "sharper" on the ttongue.Theres not much difference in flavor profile like you'd expect in a steam beer. Perhaps that is concealed by the rye spice.
I'll be interested to see how they compare in 3 weeks. So far, I don't have a clear preference.
As always, YMMV.
@Bier1080

 

[Bier1080]

Awesome, SirHC!! Thanks for the update! They both sound good. I plan on brewing the KC this weekend. Think I'll do 4 gallons with 05 and save a gallon for a small 34/70 slurry I have. Looking forward to it!

 

[Bier1080]

I've had this kegged for about two weeks now. Definitely smooth and tasty! Had a busy day and only did 05 for yeast. Next time will try 34/70. Thanks Revvy!

 

[lump42]

I plan on brewing a small batch of this weekend in during my Vienna Lager mash. Busy day but will be a good way to use a big yeast cake from a dopple.

 

[SirHC_]

And a month later I'm out of the windsor batch to compare...oops. the steam beer is still quite good, has gotten a little less smooth, I think, and a little less sweet. Tasting more like anchor steam plus rye.
I've mostly had them at fresh from the fridge temp but the bottles I let sit awhile before opening (backyard gathering, hence the lack of Windsor batch) had a more robust temperature. Not surprising but I e cold is Def NOT the desired temp for this beer. I'd guess 45° has been a good target temp. Just leave the bottle on the counter for 15 minutes before opening.
In summary, I think I prefer the steam version overall. The yeast adds just a bit more character that I appreciate on a warm evening on the deck.
Good luck!

 

[Ollie8000]

Fascinating thread, and I'm excited to try a version of this. I picked up the following grain bill from my LHBS:

4.5lb pale malt 2-row
2lb malted rye
2oz black patent malt
2oz crystal/caramel 120L

The plan was to brew a 5 gallon batch. They didn't have flaked corn so I was going to just add corn sugar.

However, thanks to a lucky equipment loan, I can now brew it sooner as a 3 gallon batch rather than 5, so my plan is to use that grain bill and skip the sugar entirely. Is this a bad idea for any reason? I have been using BeerSmith for all of an hour now and it doesn't seem unreasonable there, but I might be doing it wrong.

The LHBS didn't have Cluster and suggested Magnum. 0.5oz at 60min and the other 0.5oz at 20min seems like it looks good.

Yeast: US-05. I don't have good temp control at the moment, but on an 80F day today the basement where I'll be fermenting hit 66F at max, so I think Us-05 should handle that OK. I might have a slightly better system (i.e. a bucket with water) by the time I brew.

Any comments or advice very welcome.

 

[z-bob]

Fascinating thread, and I'm excited to try a version of this. I picked up the following grain bill from my LHBS:

4.5lb pale malt 2-row
2lb malted rye
2oz black patent malt
2oz crystal/caramel 120L

The plan was to brew a 5 gallon batch. They didn't have flaked corn so I was going to just add corn sugar.

However, thanks to a lucky equipment loan, I can now brew it sooner as a 3 gallon batch rather than 5, so my plan is to use that grain bill and skip the sugar entirely. Is this a bad idea for any reason? I have been using BeerSmith for all of an hour now and it doesn't seem unreasonable there, but I might be doing it wrong.

The LHBS didn't have Cluster and suggested Magnum. 0.5oz at 60min and the other 0.5oz at 20min seems like it looks good.

Yeast: US-05. I don't have good temp control at the moment, but on an 80F day today the basement where I'll be fermenting hit 66F at max, so I think Us-05 should handle that OK. I might have a slightly better system (i.e. a bucket with water) by the time I brew.

Any comments or advice very welcome.

Corn sugar is not the same thing as flaked corn. But Corn Flakes breakfast cereal is really close (I've used it before.) For corn, I usually use cornmeal or grits or tamale masa flour, and cook it first. Breakfast cereal is already cooked, that's part of the appeal of using it.

 

[kevin58]

Fascinating thread, and I'm excited to try a version of this. I picked up the following grain bill from my LHBS:

4.5lb pale malt 2-row
2lb malted rye
2oz black patent malt
2oz crystal/caramel 120L

The plan was to brew a 5 gallon batch. They didn't have flaked corn so I was going to just add corn sugar.

Don't use corn sugar expecting it to be a suitable substitute for flaked corn/maize. Order it online if your LHBS doesn't have it and wait to brew until it arrives.

 

[ba-brewer]

I recall Jamil on one of the brew strong shows say that flaked corn(and other flaked products) does not have as long of a shelf life as whole grains and to try find fresh stuff.

 

[Ollie8000]

Thanks folks, good info.

The correct thing to do is probably to wait. However, I've recently returned to homebrewing which alters my perspective a little. My top two priorities are to fill the pipeline with drinkable beer and to practise and refine my technique.

The unexpected access to a bit more kit means that I can brew a 3 gallon batch of something, provided I have it on hand. I can get to the LHBS (which is not very L) before I get left with idle equipment again, but not soon enough to deliberately design a 3 gallon batch from scratch.

Scaling down my plans for a 5 gallon batch of this beer seems like the best route. This means abandoning my plans to replace the flaked corn with sugar and just leaving it out entirely, using the ready-milled grain bill I have as all of the fermentables.

On reflection, this is probably a different beer at this point rather than a variation on the thread's main recipe. Still, I plan to give it a shot tomorrow (and certainly welcome further advice).

 

[z-bob]

Are you doing BIAB? That's a lot of rye for a traditional sparge but will work with BIAB. Rye is gummy. Also, the corn is there to reduce the protein as well as provide fermentables. (corn sugar will do that too, but it won't taste the same.) Try an 18 oz box of Aldi's corn flakes cereal for the corn. If I recall correctly, it's considerably less than $2. There's other stuff in there besides corn, but it's mostly a little bit of sugar and some vitamins.

The recipe you posted should taste good, but I think it will be hard to brew and will be a bit cloudy instead of clear when it's finished.

 

[Ollie8000]

Yes, BIAB.

It's a 20+ mile round trip to the store and I want to brew before I next go in. This gives me four options: nothing, corn sugar, cornmeal and/or rolled oats. (I checked the one breakfast cereal I have in the house and it's oat-based.) If I get a beer that tastes good but is cloudy I'll be pretty happy, so I'm inclined to just go for it as-is.

Update: I brewed without any further additions. OG came in at 1.058, compared to BeerSmith's 1.057. I'm very happy with that.

 

[Ollie8000]

Transferred to secondary at 1.016. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the rye is very in-your-face. I think I'm going to like it.

 

[Ollie8000]

Given this version a first try and I'm very happy. I'm not sure I've ever had a rye beer before, certainly not one where the rye is so powerful. I assume there must be commercial rye beers out there that are heavy on the rye?

My plan was to get the ingredients for the original recipe on my next LHBS trip and do it properly, but now I'm considering scaling what I did this time up to 5 gallons instead. I don't think the three I made are going to last very long.

 

[Bier1080]

It is definitely kind of in your face rye, in a good way. I don't think I've had a commercial beer with as much rye flavor. This beer is very unique but so awesome! I think the corn gives it a bit of sweetness and might make it a little dialed down on the rye compared to your first version but i've never had it without the corn so I'm just guessing. Good luck!

 

[pigroaster]

I brewed this baby today but could only find dark Rye Flour stone ground so I added rice hulls with the flaked corn and this flour.. Almost a stuck sparge. Slow to flow... I ended up with 5.5 gallons so I could have boiled it down some more to hit numbers better.. Can't wait to get a taste of this after my other 10 kegs are dry!

 

[kevin58]

I brewed this last weekend. After looking at the original recipe on the forum and comparing my grist I'm not sure why I added an extra pound of base malt while everything else is about the same. But I did. And I video'd the brew day as I sometimes do. More as a record for myself and the entertainment of a few of my friends.

 

[Revvy]

I brewed this last weekend. After looking at the original recipe on the forum and comparing my grist I'm not sure why I added an extra pound of base malt while everything else is about the same. But I did. And I video'd the brew day as I sometimes do. More as a record for myself and the entertainment of a few of my friends.

I was startled just now to see it popup in my youtube queue. I just commented, and was going to post the video here.

 

[kevin58]

I was startled just now to see it popup in my youtube queue. I just commented, and was going to post the video here.

This has been on my to-do list for a long time. I did a clone of Kentucky Common from 10 Mile Brewing in Long Beach Ca. which was very good but I am eager to see what the rye brings to the party.

 

[nyer]

Hmm. I made this before on my old 3 vessel system and the beer came out dark like the pics on here.
I made it again and adjusted the recipe for my ebiab and the beer is significantly lighter. The srm on brewers friend shows 14.62 but I think its lighter than that. The black patent I used was United kingdom, could that make a difference? My adjusted recipe is below.
5.24 lb pale 2 row
2.42 lb flaked corn
1.2 lb flaked rye
3.2 oz United kingdom black patent
2.7 oz crystal 120

 

[nyer]

Actually in the op the recipe shows the color is 11 but his beer pic is much darker than an 11.