Kickstarter for SS Mash Tun, Kettle and Fermenter

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Steve responded to my concern about my fermenter clamps not actually sealing the lid down. Here is the response.

Hi Frostbrewer,
Most of our fermenters have been fine. We tested a bunch and they were all airtight so we sent out the rest without testing every one. I'm sorry that yours didn't clamp all the way down.
We have been looking into ways of bending the clamps so that they clamp down all the way. But they are thick enough that this isn't easy to do by hand. So if you can figure out an easy way to bend the clamps let us know.
Until then, the temporary solution would be to add a shim to the top of the fermenter, so that it clamps down tight. This isn't a permanent solution, but if you wanted to keep your current fermenter, then you could proceed that way.
But if you want a full replacement we can send you a return label and send us back the fermenter. When we receive the fermenter back from you, we will send out a new one with an airtight seal. Then we will find out a way to bend the clamps at the warehouse.
You will need to send the fermenter back in the same packaging it came in. Also, you should keep the fittings and we will send you just the fermenter and lid. Let me know if you want us to send you a return label.
-Steve

Works for me. Awesome customer service. I will be sending it back, i have no idea how to appropriately bend those clamps and I really don't want to deal with adding a shim to the lid.

I hate to say it but I am a tad worried that the missing .25 gallon of headspace will negatively affect the fermenters performance. It isn't enough to make me demand a refund but I'll really have to be careful about how full I get the fermenters. That tiny hole on top likely wont cut it as a blowoff hole.
 
Yeah, that seems like pretty reasonable customer service for a company just fresh off their first Kickstarter. He's said all along that if anyone was unsatisfied for any reason he'd offer a full refund, and it looks like that applies to exchanges as well.

Still haven't had much time to really tinker around with mine too much, but from what I've seen so far, the things look pretty darn solid, and they won't take much modification or updating to turn them into something I'll be extremely happy with.
 
That's what I was thinking. as long as there are no damages to it, you can order everything you need from Bobby to upgrade them for whatever you want.
 
Yeah, from just looking at it so far and seeing people's initial feedback my plan is to replace the false bottom/dip tube setup with Bobby's false bottom 1/2" connector setup, leave the kettle alone other than adding a street 90 or something for the inside pickup, and I'm selling off the fermenter.
 
Yeah this dip tube in the barrel is interesting.. because it's not air-tight to the nut, you lose any siphon you have once the water level drops below the nut.. so that leaves a lot of waste. If it was sealed, even with a small O-ring, i don't think it would be a problem.
 
In case folks didn't see Chapman's comments on the Kickstarter page:

"A couple of notes:

Some of the ThermoBarrels were sent with inadequate packaging. If your ThermoBarrel was damaged in shipping, please send us an email at [email protected] and we will work something out to remedy the situation.


Some people are having trouble with assembling the bulkhead on the fermenter. We are now realizing that it's a little more difficult than we anticipated. We are working on putting together new instructions and other ways to remedy this in the future. If you are having problems and want some tips on alternative directions for assembly, send us an email.


We are working on shipping out the larger pieces of equipment and combination packages now. Some of your rewards will ship in multiple packages and they won't come all at once. Also, we've had to special order boxes for rewards that include multiple fermenters, and these will be shipping last. We are anticipating completing shipping out 95%+ of the rewards by the end of next week."
 
Yeah, I would agree. My guess is he is pretty darn busy still trying to get everything shipped out and responding to the emails as they come in, hence him not posting here directly to address concerns at this point.

All-in-all, we got a steal with the Kickstarter prices, and I'm glad I backed this project.

Just being honest though, looking at the retail prices today, if I were in the market for an insulated SS mash tun, I would be pretty hard pressed to choose the Chapman model over the SS Brewtech model, which is only $50 more. I'm essentially going to spend about $50 swapping out the dip tube contraption to something 1/2" end-to-end, so with the Kickstarter price I'm still doing alright, but at the retail price you'd be neck-to-neck with the SS Brewtech price.

The SS Brewtech comes with (what's perceived to be) a more accurate thermometer, drains to no loss, but does not include the recirc port that the Chapman model does. For my particular setup I wanted a recirc port, but if you don't need that, the SS Brewtech model seems to be the better piece of kit.
 
i was looking at the SS brewtech site the other day and it said the mash tuns come with recirc port.
 
Wife checked em out and says this is the only damage we got.. easy enough to bend out though :)

20150815_151235.jpg
 
What contact method is everyone using for chapman? i used the email address (info@) from their website and no reply.
 
While I was brewing up my amber ale today I finally had a chance to take a closer look at, and start to setup some of, my Chapman gear.

First thing, in case you're wondering, those stickers on the front of everything just peel right off and don't leave any residue. No offense to Chapman, just like I said before, people are much more likely to see a sticker on my beer fridge, fermentation chamber etc., than they are my brew kettle, and I think stickers on SS just look a little tacky. So I removed mine and put the extra stickers he sent on my beer fridge.

FYI - I've already sold my 7 gallon fermenter. It wasn't going to work for my setup, so I didn't really bother trying to set it up at all. I wound up getting $100 for it, which I figured was fair seeing as how it was $90 for it and the ball-valve during the kickstarter, and that setup would cost your $150 retail through their website now.

I checked the thermometers for both my kettle and the Thermobarrel, and they were both accurate to my Thermapen within a degree or so at 3 different temp settings. I checked a glass of ice water, some near boiling water, and a glass of water at 150. My only feedback here would be if you're going to sell a thermometer in the U.S. you should really have Fahrenheit be the larger, easier-to-read scale. Having it on the inside of the scale makes it so you really have to study it to check your temp.

So then I installed the thermometer and 3-piece ball valve in my kettle. I used a "liberal" application of the Teflon tape and an adjustable wrench to tighten everything down. I started by attaching the nipple to the kettle, and then the ball valve to the nipple, and once it was finger tight I cranked it down with a wrench until it wouldn't turn anymore and was in the correct position. I used a wrench on the thermometer as well and then gave it a leak test. I put 9 gallons of water in the kettle and let it sit for 30 minutes, and there were no leaks at all. I then used a little PBW, gave everything a good scrub, and I think it's good to go for my next brew day. By my calculations I paid $140 for the kettle, which I think is a heck of a bargain.

Then I took a look at the Thermobarrel. Like I said, I'd already pretty much decided I was going to swap out that dip tube for one of Bobby's 1/2" plumbed false bottoms, so I started to look at the bulkhead on the bottom. That's when I realized that these aren't a 1/2" bulkhead, but rather they start as 1/2" and then inside the barrel they all go down to 1/4". At least I think it's 1/4", I didn't have anything handy to measure it to be sure. All three of them in the barrel are like this. This looks like a custom piece, as I've not seen anything like this before.

I took one out to examine it, and if you do so you can see the insulation inside the barrel. Chapman includes a bushing for inside the recirc port so it goes 1/2" > 1/4" > 1/2" again, but I was a little surprised to see that these weren't true 1/2" bulkheads. If you want them to be 1/2" all the way through you'll have to do some drilling as the inside hole is smaller than the outside hole. I'm not sure why this design was chosen, but it definitely puts a kink in my plans to replace the diptube setup. I either need to drill out the SS so a 1/2" bulkhead can fit in, or I need to live the the 1/2" > 1/4" > 1/2" configuration and purchase another bushing.

By my calculations I paid $159 for the Thermobarrel, and I think I need to spend about another $65 with Bobby at Brewer's Hardware to make it work how I'd like it to, which would put my total at $224, so I think I still got an excellent setup for a heck of a price with this one too.

I'm still very happy that I backed this project, and I hope to see these guys get off the ground. Their current retail prices are competitive with that of some of the other stuff in the market, but at those prices I'd be hard pressed to choose between Chapman and someone like SS Brewtech. They both have some pros and cons. I'll definitely keep an eye on these guys and would like to see what changes V2 of their products make.
 
Looking forward to seeing how well it does for your next brew day.

I'm in that same train of thought.. for what I paid, and what I will put into it, I think I ended up with a good deal.. and I'm glad I helped these guys start a company. If I were looking at this at retail price, I doubt I would go with Chapman over SS Brewtech. Given that SS Brewtech has everything all ready and worked out, vs.. having to make adjustments for on the Chapman like the dip tube or bulkheads almost immediately. The extra work and added cost wouldn't be worth it.

I'll be curious to see how they adapt and adjust their product for v2.
 
I took one of the bulkheads apart and see why their design goes from 1/2" to 3/8". They seal the bulkhead on the inside wall with a rubber washer on both sides of it. It's a clean design, I like it.

If I were to change the false bottom I'd just get a bushing and call it good. I wouldn't risk drilling out the inside wall. Although you'd probably be fine with using a step bit to enlarge the hole to 1/2".
 
Hey, like your setup. That looks pretty slick, basically what I'm going for with a slightly different recirculation setup.

Thanks for pointing out that it's 3/8". I ended up having a little more time yesterday, so I went and took another look, and I see what you're saying about the bulkhead design. I suppose it is better to have the rubber washer on the outside of the inside wall (does that make sense) as opposed to trying to seal it on the outside of the outside wall, as that would mean it could leak into the insulation.

I'm definitely going to go with just adding a bushing as opposed to trying to drill it out.
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
By my calculations I paid $159 for the Thermobarrel, and I think I need to spend about another $65 with Bobby at Brewer's Hardware to make it work how I'd like it to, which would put my total at $224, so I think I still got an excellent setup for a heck of a price with this one too.
Click to expand...


What parts are you looking at?
 
Here's their bulkhead (minus the camlock). The inside wall gets sandwiched between the two o-rings. The nut that goes on the end is not in the photo. I took all the bulkheads out to apply sealant to the foam. I did this with my cooler MLT and thought it a good idea to do again, just incase a leak does develop. I used Loctite aquarium safe clear silicone to seal the foam.
ThermoBarrel Bulkhead (1280x719).jpg

ThermoBarrel Port (719x1280).jpg
 
Has anyone tried to replace their thermometers yet? I was going to swap out (at a minimum) the one that goes into the MLT with something a little easier to read. It looks like what Chapman sent was a thermometer already stuck into a thermowell. I was hoping to reuse the thermowell and just buy a new thermometer, but when I tried to unscrew it I couldn't get it to budge. I was afraid if I used to much force I'd crack the shell on the front of the thermometer, and I don't want to ruin it, so I gave up for now, but if someone else has gotten theirs to separate I'll give it another shot.
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
Has anyone tried to replace their thermometers yet? I was going to swap out (at a minimum) the one that goes into the MLT with something a little easier to read. It looks like what Chapman sent was a thermometer already stuck into a thermowell. I was hoping to reuse the thermowell and just buy a new thermometer, but when I tried to unscrew it I couldn't get it to budge. I was afraid if I used to much force I'd crack the shell on the front of the thermometer, and I don't want to ruin it, so I gave up for now, but if someone else has gotten theirs to separate I'll give it another shot.
Click to expand...
That's the way the thermometers come, it's a complete assembly. I used the thermometer from my cooler MLT, vice the one they supplied.
 
So sad that I missed out on this. Trying to get back into brewing and the $349.99 for the 10gal MT and 15gal Kettle was such an amazing price point that I could have just jumped straight back in without taking several months to source parts and tools to make my own system.

Sadly, JUST the MLT is that price now :(

EDIT: The SS BrewTech Kettle is actually cheaper for 15gal, yet somewhere in the thread the company said the BrewTech SS was better?
 
I also found out that it's easier to install attachments (valve, thermometer, camlock, etc.) if you remove the bulkhead from the ThermoBarrel. This way you can tighten the attachment while griping onto the bulkhead with something. Then just reinstall the bulkhead with the attachment on it, by tightening the nut on the inside of the barrel. This also allows you to get the proper orientation of what you're installing without the risk of the bulkhead turning, something that could displace the O-rings.
 
ingchr1 said:
I'm not seeing how the bushing and bulkhead are going to work together, unless you also add a coupling. With the bushing you should just need a female hose barb on the end.
Click to expand...


Thanks for all your responses! Yeah, that's basically what I wanted, was just that end hose barb piece, but I couldn't find it, aside from the bulkhead setup. Figured I'd just use the rest of the bulkhead setup somewhere else down the line.

Also, turns out the thermometer that Ss Brewtech sells for their fermenters is not rated for mash/boil temps, and they don't sell the one that's included with their MLTs separately. So now off to find a plan B!
 
Haha, ok, well I think the heat is affecting my brain, as obviously I just need a 5/8" hose barb, not the whole setup. That's just a $4 part, so it looks like it'd be $46.50 to replace the dip tube setup with the 1/2" setup from Brew Hardware.

As far as replacing the thermometer goes, I think I might just go with a standard thermowell like this one from AIH, and not putting an actual thermometer in it. I currently use a ThermoWorks ChefAlarm with the optional 12" probe as a clip-on for my HLT, which leaves the probe that comes with it unused. I think it might just work to insert that into the thermowell of my MLT and switch with the probe in my HLT when I need to.
 
What I've been working on:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/truebulkheadbarb.htm
Barb on the inside, threads on the outside. Threads dont protrude enough to screw the valve straight on so will need to add this.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nptext.htm
Bobby is out of stock right now so will need to wait... :mad:
Or buy this.
https://www.brewershardware.com/Spe...1-2-Male-out-side-and-1-2-Female-inside..html :ban:

While at it I added this for the thermometer to avoid the straight female threads in the stock bulkhead.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/truebulkheadfem.htm

WP_20150816_15_28_13_Pro.jpg
 
KevinP said:
What I've been working on:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/truebulkheadbarb.htm
Barb on the inside, threads on the outside. Threads dont protrude enough to screw the valve straight on so will need to add this.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nptext.htm
Bobby is out of stock right now so will need to wait... :mad:
Or buy this.
https://www.brewershardware.com/Spe...1-2-Male-out-side-and-1-2-Female-inside..html :ban:

While at it I added this for the thermometer to avoid the straight female threads in the stock bulkhead.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/truebulkheadfem.htm
Click to expand...

Interesting, so you're looking to replace the Chapman bulkheads altogether and just go 1/2" all the way through?
 
Not just looking to replace but have already replaced.
Used a 1.5" hole saw on the outer wall to clear the new bulkheads and a step bit on the inner wall. Was all really easy.

WP_20150816_15_25_31_Pro.jpg
 
Sorry I've missed responding to this thread over the last week. We've been rushing to get things done in a timely manner. We are about 80% complete with shipping out rewards and will be finishing up sending out equipment as soon as we can.

In the meantime, we've encountered a few problems which you've been discussing. I'll try and address every issue, one at a time.

ThermoBarrel Shipping Issues

We don't have a lot of experience shipping out large pieces of equipment, so we were experimenting with different methods of packaging. We've been using double thick boxes with foam, general shipping boxes with bubble wrap, double box shipping, and combinations of the above.

It seems that the fermenter and the kettle have not been damaged significantly in shipping. But the ThermoBarrel has been dented on the bottom several times. The tab on the latch also gets bent in shipping. It seems that the double thick box with foam plating is the most likely to get damaged in shipping. We will probably need to get larger boxes and thicker foam plating in the future. But that's something we are still figuring out.

For now, if your ThermoBarrel has been dented in shipping, please send us an email. We can work out a way to remedy the situation whether it's by replacing the mash tun or some other means, such as sending a free growler or giving store credit.

ThermoBarrel Dip Tube

The major issue with the dip tube is the seal between the nut and the flare tip. The original design was using silicone tubing, but we switched to a dip tube last minute. I admit that the design is lacking. We were trying to simplify, and tried to remove every unnecessary part. In turn, we also removed some necessary parts by mistake.

We were only able to preform two tests with the dip tube and it worked fine one of the times. So we assumed the other time was because the tube was out of place. Now we see where the real problem lies. (It's pretty obvious, and I can't believe we missed it.)

As some of you have suggested, we will be looking into getting the appropriate sized o-rings for the dip tube. As soon as we find the right size that we can order in bulk, we will mail out o-rings to everyone who got a ThermoBarrel.

The dip tube, the internal fittings, and the free hose nipple we included are all 3/8". The 3/8" design was mentioned on the Kickstarter page in a few places. Sorry if you missed that. It's not an ideal design, but it was the easiest to get it together initially, as it ensures there won't be any leakage into the insulation. If anyone needs an extra 3/8"x1/2" bushing, just let me know and we can send you a free one in the mail.

Also, someone mentioned that the dip tubes didn't look stainless. Is this something that a lot of you are thinking? If so, what gives you the impression that they might not be stainless steel?

Incorrect Fittings for the Fermenter Bulkhead

Most people are having problems assembling these bulkheads. We tested these more than five times and were able to create a seal after a couple tries on all of the tests. How we were able to do that, I don't know. At first when people mentioned they were having problems, I told them just to play around with it a little more and it should work. I'm now realizing that wasn't the best advice. It turns out that the nipples are not NPT, as they were supposed to be.

The nipples will thread into the ThermoBarrel ports all the way, but not into the Heavy Kettler ports or the ball valves. We are now just realizing the extent of the problem. We have contacted the manufacturer about this and are still waiting for a straight forward response, but communication is lacking. In the future we will have to find a new supplier for the fittings.

We are currently looking for a domestic source of 1/2" NPT close nipples. I'm not really familiar with the US wholesale fittings market, so I'm having trouble finding a good source. I know this is highly unprofessional of me, but if any of you have a suggestion where we can buy 500+ nipples for less than $1/pc and get them sent to us within a week, I'm all ears.

Fermenter Lids and Clamps

Two people have emailed me saying the lids on the SteelTank were not clamping down properly, one of which was Frostbrewer. We are replacing Frostbrewer's fermenter. The other KS backer was able to bend the clamps using a combination of vice grips and pliers, although he said he was unable to explain exactly how he did it. We aren't asking anyone to try and fix their fermenters. If anyone else is having this problem, please send me an email and we will exchange it for a properly working one.

In the future when we aren't in such a rush, we will test every single seal before sending out the fermenters.

As an aside, if any of you are actually missing the gasket in the lid, please take a picture and email it to us, and we will send you a new lid.

Contacting Us

We just got the email address [email protected] set up, and it's supposed to be forwarded to my original email [email protected]. I guess it's not working. Thanks for pointing that out. The contact form on the website is in working order. But the easiest way to get a hold of me is by writing to the gmail address directly.

If anyone has any other problems, please contact us. Even if it's something small that you don't need fixed, we would still be curious to know. Good or neutral feedback is also very welcome. We are interested in all the various ways to creatively use or modify our equipment. I love that you are going ahead and turning our ThermoBarrel into exactly what fits your needs. We will try and make them easier to modify in the future.

I think when I have time to update the website, I'll go ahead and offer the ThermoBarrel as just a plain vessel, stripped of all the extra parts. We can then sell the ball valve, thermometer, and false bottom separately. As it seems like a lot of you are replacing those parts anyway.

As I've said before, our Kickstarter supporters are still our priority. If the Kickstarter supporters aren't happy, then we shouldn't even try to make a business out of it. So you're concerns come first and foremost among all the issues we are addressing.

I hope that you can forgive our mistakes at this point. We rushed to send everything out early and missed a lot of issues that we could have caught if we had taken our time. At the very latest, our goal is to have a solution to every problem by the original Kickstarter fulfillment date. Please keep the feedback coming.
 
douglasbarbin said:
After all the extra work and money going into modifying these, do you guys think that you might have been better off buying another product?
Click to expand...
No, from what I've seen on here so far the only thing "requiring" modification is the dip tube attachment. For which by the Chapman post above they are working to solution. It appears they are also addressing other issues and individual issues people are having.
 
douglasbarbin said:
After all the extra work and money going into modifying these, do you guys think that you might have been better off buying another product?
Click to expand...

No. Remember this discussion has so far revolved around pricing through the kickstarter campaign. Even with the modifications that I'm making there is no other comparable product for that money.
As has been mentioned, full pricing may be another matter. Either way on that front I would have built a keg mashtun anyway.
 
Very much appreciated @ChapmanEquipment

I really didn't want to tackle modifying those clamps, I have full confidence I would have Munsoned them.

Thanks again for the great customer service
 
First...

douglasbarbin said:
After all the extra work and money going into modifying these, do you guys think that you might have been better off buying another product?
Click to expand...

Wait, this is homebrewing, we're allowed to buy something that fits our needs right out of the box!?! Nobody ever told me that! I thought we had to modify everything we purchased for this hobby.

Kidding aside, I think really the only thing that required modification was the dip-tube assembly, and it looks like Chapman is working on making amends there. The rest of the stuff is mainly because I enjoy the tinkering aspect of this hobby almost nearly as much as the brewing part of it. Plus with the Kickstarter prices you'd really have to spend a lot of money and time on modifications/upgrades before you got close to the price of the nearest identical item on the market.

At retail prices, at this point, I could not justify buying the Chapman over the Ss Brewtech thermobarrel, but maybe that's just me. I've not looked into price comparisons for the kettle and fermenter.

Second, it's great to see Chapman posting here, and I still really think they're doing the best they can at this point. In all honesty it sounds like their manufacturer screwed them in a few different places:

1) The volume markings on the fermenter
2) Not using NPT fittings when they were instructed to do so
3) Forgetting to screen print the company logo on all the gear :)smack:)

And unfortunately that sounds pretty typical of other experiences I've heard regarding contract manufacturing with (some) Chinese firms. Everything is all great and dandy when you visit them in person, but once the full order is in, and you're no longer there personally overseeing things, corners start being cut.

But then again I think they added a couple of their own problems, and I'm just being honest here:

1) Changing the design of the dip tube last minute (generally good things don't happen when you change well thought out plans at the final hour)
2) Poor Quality Control process (they basically just said, "we tested this thing twice, it failed once, but we still shipped everything" regarding the dip tube setup)

I suppose if a couple of shipping containers of product you'd ordered shows up at your facility there's not really a whole lot of recourse you can take in terms of returning everything and getting your money back, especially not with a whole bunch of Kickstarter backers expecting their products. I think getting stuff to your customers and then taking and responding to feedback ASAP is probably the best approach. Seems they're doing their best to make this all right.

I think my two main concerns at this point, before I would look to purchase Chapman gear again would be how well they handle these issues and how that correlates into product changes for V2, and what, if any adjustments they make to their retail pricing.
 
I would encourage you to use it at least once to determine if it's really necessary to spend money on mods.

When I did a water test on my TB, the siphon was lost when the water got to the horizontal part of the dip tube. Before using it for the inaugural mash, I tightened the dip tube nut with a wrench. No siphon problems whatsoever.

After actually using the TB, I posted a review here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=540317
 
Interesting that Chapman is choosing to use 201 stainless as their primary material in the construction of their fermenters and mash tun. On their FAQ they say it is actually better than 304.

That is strange because I don’t think there is a single commercial brewing operation in this country (maybe the world) using 201 Stainless in their brewing hardware. Or if you look across the spectrum of established and successful manufacturers like Blichmann, Ss Brewtech, Stout, Glacier, MoreBeer, etc – none of those guys is using 201 stainless let alone touting it is a better metal for brewing!!

All I know is that several home brew equipment providers that years ago used 201 in some of their economy lines and especially kettles, well many of them have flipped over to 304 now. I wonder why?

Not trying to start anything just something I thought should be mentioned for those looking into getting these kettles.
 

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