Kettle Washing in a really small room - any ideas on automating this job?

[GQT]

I live in a flat.
(long desperate sigh)

OK I stole the guest bathroom from our home and turned it into a brewery. 3 sq m (1.65*2.05 m) including the toilet and the basin that I don't want to remove for obvious reasons.
There sits all my brewing gear: a 50+L (some 11+ gallon) BIAB system with a pulley, a counterflow chiller (well, three chillers in serial for summer months), a conical, a CO2 system, a few kegs in waiting, and all that buckets one in another like Russian doll, bottles with sanitizer, and whatever else. Carboys are stored at a friend's factory and I bring them in only when I need them.
Needless to say I literally stand on one foot while brewing.

Washing the stainless fermenter and carboys is no big deal, I got used to it and no problem there, but washing the kettle after boil is a nightmare. It not really that heavy, at least I can lift it, and there is a pulley anyway, but it is big, and moving it around is... is... errrr... can't find a word to describe how much pain it is.

So I was wondering if anyone brewing in space as confined as I described had thought of some sort of automation. Washing massive hop sediment out of the kettle and flushing the particles out of the chiller is no simple business, so how do you guys manage it?

 

[JonM]

I'm just in awe of the ingenuity here. I don't have an answer to your specific question, but your setup is an absolutely ingenious solution to problems with small spaces.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ummm, any chance you could flush or clean in place and drain the waste water to a drain?

 

[flars]

I would sanitize the toilet, and reserve it for brewing only. A simple rack of two pieces of board to hold the kettle horizontal with the mouth of the kettle over the toilet. Hose from the sink faucet to get water into the kettle for rinsing.

 

[GQT]

I'm just in awe of the ingenuity here. I don't have an answer to your specific question, but your setup is an absolutely ingenious solution to problems with small spaces.

Thanks man I have to say it wasn't easy

Ummm, any chance you could flush or clean in place and drain the waste water to a drain?

That's what I was thinking about, some sort of CIP - but here I got stuck. Yes I have floor drains, not particularly conveniently located but still workable, plus the toilet can be used, too. However this hoppy matter just doesn't go, I mean I have to either fill the kettle and empty it like a hundred times, and there will still be particles, or I have to lift the damn thing and dump it all into the toilet bowl more than once. (the latter is what I currently do and what I want to stop doing).
So some sort of CIP idea is exactly what I am looking for.

 

[GQT]

I would sanitize the toilet, and reserve it for brewing only. A simple rack of two pieces of board to hold the kettle horizontal with the mouth of the kettle over the toilet. Hose from the sink faucet to get water into the kettle for rinsing.

- sanitize the toilet, and reserve it for brewing only - DONE
- rack of two pieces of board to hold the kettle horizontal with the mouth of the kettle over the toilet - THOUGHT SOMETHING SIMILAR BUT DIDN'T COME TO A GOOD DESIGN IDEA. WOOD IS A NO GO IN OUR AREA, HAS TO BE METAL, BUT IT WOULD BE OK IF I HAD A CLEAR VISION OF WHAT IT SHOULD BE LIKE
- Hose from the sink faucet to get water into the kettle for rinsing - DONE

Talking keeping the thing over the toilet, I thought about something like hinged platform that would allow me to topple the kettle over the toilet but none of the designs I toyed with turned out to be practical. Still thinking.

 

[flars]

Hop debris from pellets might go through a pump like this if mixed with enough water volume. Slight tilt to the kettle would only mean wiping out the last bit of water.

Anyone use this type of pump where there are some solid particles?

 

[GQT]

Slight tilt to the kettle would only mean wiping out the last bit of water.

My pumps eat hop debris no prob but tilting the kettle will not ease anything; the drain pipe inside the kettle is in the middle of the bottom which is perfect for sucking in wort but not so good when it comes to washing...
I don't mind scooping out most of the hop matter manually but what is left calls for turning the kettle upside down to get done with.
Is there any way to dissolve these little particles in some sort of chemical?

 

[ccfoo242]

You can drain into the toilet. It automatically flushes when the level gets high enough.

 

[flars]

I think that anything that could dissolve the hop debris would cause damage to the kettle.

Can you replace the drain hose with another one? With the kettle full of water, and keeping a constant whirlpool, the hop debris may drain out. This has the chance of being a unworkable hairbrain idea.

 

[Duke145]

Is there any chance you could remove the toilet? pop a sink in its place?

 

[GQT]

Is there any chance you could remove the toilet? pop a sink in its place?

I would if I could.
I am not sure this is my last house/flat, so thinking of possible putting it on the market I don't wish to get into all this mess.
Yes a big cubic stainless sink in place of the toilet would provide a complex and total solution (and the pulley would make everything even more easy), I know. But it's not realistic. Besides, I guess it could only be done over my wife's dead body, and it's a little bit too early for this.

 

[Duke145]

Removing a toilet isn't all that hard but then you would have to store it somewhere or toss it and replace it when you sell. Another option would be to put some sort of sink above it and have it drain into the toilet.

 

[NeoBrew]

Another option would be to put some sort of sink above it and have it drain into the toilet.

This!

If you suspend it above the existing toilet you could just have a short drain pipe down into the bowl. You could just tip the kettle over and drain it right into that sink.

 

[GQT]

Removing a toilet isn't all that hard but then you would have to store it somewhere or toss it and replace it when you sell. Another option would be to put some sort of sink above it and have it drain into the toilet.

Wow, thanks a ton Duke! This is definitely a fresh idea and very well worth thinking over!
Sink must be removable so the toilet can be washed/sanitized from time to time, but it is a technicality.
Now, this is really something realistic and doable.
Thanks again!

 

[Kennybrew]

I never lift my kettle. I use a wet/dry vac to get all the hops out, scrubbie and rinse the the sides. Only takes about a gallon of water.

 

[Duke145]

You have certainly master the use of small spaces, I'm glad I could help brainstorm and it works out then post up a picture.

 

[Vesteroid]

Perhaps I didn't understand all the replies and this has been said, but why can't you just build a shelf over the toilet and open the valve and let it Drain into the toilet while filling fresh water from a hose attached to the sink.

 

[GQT]

Perhaps I didn't understand all the replies and this has been said, but why can't you just build a shelf over the toilet and open the valve and let it Drain into the toilet while filling fresh water from a hose attached to the sink.

There are all sorts of hoses, cold and hot water, and drainage. But this thick hoppy gunk isn't all that quick and easy to flush out. Takes really long time and some particles still decide to stay.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I never lift my kettle. I use a wet/dry vac to get all the hops out, scrubbie and rinse the the sides. Only takes about a gallon of water.

But then you need to clean the shop vac, no?

I have read of this being done and figured you are messing one vessel only to have to clean another ???

Granted you may not clean a shop vac to kettle standards, but it would need to be cleaned to avoid getting stinky ripe....

 

[BeardedBrews]

Are you working against water restrictions?

I recently added a fitting to connect my kettle outlet through my pump and directly into the garden hose that drains out of my garage. This lets me clean the keggle completely without turning it upside down at all.

When my kettle is drained (trub and hops still in there) I grab my fresh water line, add a garden sprayer, and start hosing out the kettle. Once there is enough sloppy liquid to maintain prime on the pump I turn it on and just let it run outside. Gradually as I scrub and spray inside the pot the hops and gunk get diluted and sucked down until there are just a few relatively clean hop leaves floating in there and I can usually just wipe them out with a paper towel.

If you ran the drain into the bowl of the toilet, the toilet would just gradually drain as it fills above the P-Trap. When you're done there will probably be a bunch of leafy hops in there, but a quick flush should fix that.

 

[Psylocide]

Or you could do what I do in the winter here... load up whatever needs to be cleaned, drive over to your nearest DIY car wash with a pressure washer and blast everything out.

Costs me ~$2.50 but saves me a ton of time/hassle.

 

[Kennybrew]

But then you need to clean the shop vac, no?

I have read of this being done and figured you are messing one vessel only to have to clean another ???

Granted you may not clean a shop vac to kettle standards, but it would need to be cleaned to avoid getting stinky ripe....

You are right but I'll just call it consolidating.

My waste situation is actually worse. I have to move it out of my brewery. Spent grains are put into a bucket and out to compost. The mash remainders are vacuumed, along with kettle waste. Total vacuumed amount is less than 5 gals. So, final waste is a plastic vac bucket dumped in the toilet, then rinsed. It is definitely better than dragging a keggle and cooler to be rinsed. Maybe even better than chasing particles down the drain.

It's a solution that works for me. Give it a shot.

 

[GQT]

It's a solution that works for me. Give it a shot.

Well might work for me as well. Buying a wet hoover wasn't on my slate but, errrr.... who knows. In place where we live it might be cheap, so at least I'll have a try on it.
While I am thinking I will really install a sink over the toilet - I love the idea for its smartness and elegance - I might still find more than one way to utilize the wet hoover so buying it becomes more justified before Meine Frau.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I am amazed with your brewery, you seem to tackle brewing related issues as an expert.

I'm sure you have hundred of hours and many dollars invested.

Removing a toilet and placing a shop sink is not that difficult or costly?

I guess happy wife happy life lol

Another idea I don't think has been mentioned is to increase your kettle drain valve size, or perhaps add a large drain valve that would permit quick rinsing with a large dia hose to the toilet....say 1 or 1 1-2". I think the larger kettle drain would allow much better clean in place.

 

[GQT]

(A)hundred of hours and many dollars invested...
(B)Removing a toilet and placing a shop sink is not that difficult or costly?
(C) large drain valve that would permit quick rinsing with a large dia hose to the toilet....

A - thanks for good words. I am simply trying to make everything as fool-proof as possible (have known myself for quite some time) and make my brews consistent. Investment... Hours - yes; dollars - no. Yuan - yes
B - Removing the toilet is not an option, period - I need peace in family!
C - YES this is something I will do in future. A full inch or 1.5" drain in the center of the bottom. Would be an elegant all-in-one solution: the pipe would go vertically through the counterflow coil and dump into floor drain hole. The only thing that stops me from doing it right away is that I need some time to finalize my setup and brewery layout. If I suddenly decide to, say, mirror flip the layout and move the kettle to the left and fermenter to the right or whatever - I will not wish to have my hands tied by some fixtures that may or may not fit the new layout. But as soon as I am sure this setup is final, I'm going to see my welder friend. Not a moment later.