Kegging Guiness

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

jhorgan1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
175
Reaction score
0
Location
Hoboken
Hi guys,
I'm looking ahead to to Saint Patricks Day and I want to make a Guiness clone. A friend of mine made a clone last year and it was spot on except he bottled it and it didnt have the famous Guiness head. I want to keg it this year. What would be the best way to get that head? I know that I should be using N02. I was thinking of buying an adapter for a paintball tank since I have plenty of N02 tanks. I would prefer the cheapest set up possible. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
-John
 
They use nitrogen, not nitros/NO2 with Guinness...

If you don't plan on getting a stout tap/faucet, then look into the Perlick 575 'Creamer' faucet... With that, you can top off the brew with a nice thick head. I have three of those and use them to that effect.
 
Hi guys,
I'm looking ahead to to Saint Patricks Day and I want to make a Guiness clone. A friend of mine made a clone last year and it was spot on except he bottled it and it didnt have the famous Guiness head. I want to keg it this year. What would be the best way to get that head? I know that I should be using N02. I was thinking of buying an adapter for a paintball tank since I have plenty of N02 tanks. I would prefer the cheapest set up possible. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
-John


Not to highjack this thread but, Whats your recipe, if you don't mine sharing?
 
Not to highjack this thread but, Whats your recipe, if you don't mine sharing?

I don't have the exact recipe but he got it out of this book: Amazon.com: CloneBrews, 2nd Edition: Recipes for 200 Brand-Name Beers (9781603425391): Tess and Mark Szamatulski: Books

zazbnf- thanks for the link, I read through it. Did you need to get a different regulator for the nitrogen tank?

Golddiggie - my mistake, i forgot that there is a difference. I didnt realize that I could get the same effect with a special tap. I think I'll look into that before I try and crazy gas setup
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For a stout faucet/tap and nitrogen setup, you do get a different regulator too. So, for just the occasional brew, you have to decide if you want to invest all of that. You also need to carbonate the batch on CO2 first, then shift over to nitrogen, or beer gas (typically an 80/20 blend of nitrogen/CO2) for serving.

Getting the 575 Creamer faucet will be a less expensive option. Plus, you can use it for any brew you wish. I know you could probably do that with a stout faucet/tap, but it seems like such a waste. Plus, a stout faucet (alone) is $36 more than the 575SS faucet (on Keg Connection's site)... Add to that the cost of the nitrogen tank, additional hardware, and regulator, and it's not an inexpensive addition to your setup.

Personally, I've been very happy with the results from the 575 Creamer faucets I have. The ONLY thing I don't get is the Guinness cascade effect with the pour. Although, sometimes I almost get that too. :D

I'm not going to say getting the stout faucet is a bad idea, or not worth it, but YOU need to weigh the extra expense and minimal (if any) gain over the 575 faucet.
 
I have a nitrogen/stout setup. I used it for my Extra Stout and Irish Red. I used to side with that, but now after numerous beers through that setup, and served normal, I think serving Stouts normal is far superior. I think the nitrogen and stout faucet is a bunch of fancy nothing. You get a thick creamy head and a near flat beer. After the coolness factor subsided, I realized that's all it was. By the low carbonation and forcing it through those small holes, I think it loses flavor, mouthfeel, and aroma. I'm not just going off my system in case you think I screwed everything up (I didn't) - I've had a number of commercial beers on nitrogen/stout faucet as well and I think the same with those. Guinness on draft tastes like water now.

I'd be interested in others opinions - granted you have had long term experience with this. I'm sure I'll get plenty of responses like "NITRO IS AWESOME! YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!"

In my opinion, don't waste the money. It's not worth it and actually makes the beer worse.

All that being said, if anyone still wants a nitrogen stout setup I have a nitrogen tank (40cf), new (very nice) micromatic regulator, and 2 Guinness faucets (not generic - one brass, one silver) including the tall modern Guinness tap handle. I had a Guinness keg coupler but sold that awhile back. Everything is for sale.
 
zazbnf- thanks for the link, I read through it. Did you need to get a different regulator for the nitrogen tank?

If you are using an HPA paintball tank as your nitrogen source, you can use your co2 regulator because the HPA tank has a built in regulator that reduces the output pressure from nitrogen pressure to approximate co2 pressure (around 750PSI) then use the paintball tank to co2 regulator adapter (about $17 on ebay or local homebrew shop) and you are set.

If you have a picnic tap you can make a stout faucet for another $15 or so and since you said you have a paintball tank you can approximate a true Guinness pour for about $35.

ODaniel said:
I'd be interested in others opinions - granted you have had long term experience with this. I'm sure I'll get plenty of responses like "NITRO IS AWESOME! YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING!"

Being a bit of a Guinness snob, I must say I prefer my Guinness the way it is recommended by the factory. I brew many beers and keep them on tap, however I always have a keg of real Guinness on tap as well. I invested what is probably way to much money in my gas blender setup to always be sure to pour a perfect(to me) pint.

That being said, I think everyone should drink their beer how they like it. If somebody tells me they like old milwaukee with chocolate syrup and duck sauce, I say enjoy. -- well maybe I really say "keep that **** away from me";)
 
If you are using an HPA paintball tank as your nitrogen source, you can use your co2 regulator because the HPA tank has a built in regulator that reduces the output pressure from nitrogen pressure to approximate co2 pressure (around 750PSI) then use the paintball tank to co2 regulator adapter (about $17 on ebay or local homebrew shop) and you are set.

If you have a picnic tap you can make a stout faucet for another $15 or so and since you said you have a paintball tank you can approximate a true Guinness pour for about $35.



Being a bit of a Guinness snob, I must say I prefer my Guinness the way it is recommended by the factory. I brew many beers and keep them on tap, however I always have a keg of real Guinness on tap as well. I invested what is probably way to much money in my gas blender setup to always be sure to pour a perfect(to me) pint.

That being said, I think everyone should drink their beer how they like it. If somebody tells me they like old milwaukee with chocolate syrup and duck sauce, I say enjoy. -- well maybe I really say "keep that **** away from me";)

Cool, I think I'll try to make a setup similar to yours. 35 bucks is definitely within my price range. I really want to try to make this as authentic as I possibly can without breaking the bank. My dad lived in Ireland until he was 25 so I want to come as close to the original as I possibly can. Thanks for your advice. :mug:
 
Just one follow-up note, if you are planning to consume the whole keg on St. Patricks day it probably won't matter, but if you plan to keep it around a while you will need be sure to add CO2 every so often to prevent beer from going flat.
 
Just one follow-up note, if you are planning to consume the whole keg on St. Patricks day it probably won't matter, but if you plan to keep it around a while you will need be sure to add CO2 every so often to prevent beer from going flat.

Alright thanks. I can't imagine it lasting for more than 12 hours XD
 
Alright thanks. I can't imagine it lasting for more than 12 hours XD

In that case I am wondering if you even need to bother with the beer gas setup. Someone should probably correct me but if you carb'd to low volumes and then stuck it on serving pressure for the "stout" picnic tap then I can't see you over carbing the beer in 12 hours. Plus others have done some testing on actually serving the beer through a stout tap with very short 1/4" lines at normal carbing pressure and it seemed to work well. Just some thoughts to save you some time/money/hassles for 1 days worth of use :)
 
Personally, I've been very happy with the results from the 575 Creamer faucets I have. The ONLY thing I don't get is the Guinness cascade effect with the pour. Although, sometimes I almost get that too. :D

I'm not going to say getting the stout faucet is a bad idea, or not worth it, but YOU need to weigh the extra expense and minimal (if any) gain over the 575 faucet.

So, the perlick 575 does not have a restrictor plate? In that case, if I carbonated on co2 first (to 1.5 vol) then pushed on pure nitrogen (no beer-gas) using a perlick 575, would I need to push at 30 psi? Since it wouldn’t be going through a restrictor plate I would imagine one wouldn’t need such a high serving pressure… maybe something more like the 10-15 psi range? This would reduce the need to refill the nitrogen tank?

How many 5 gal cornys can you push using, say, a 20 cf N bottle?
 
So, the perlick 575 does not have a restrictor plate? In that case, if I carbonated on co2 first (to 1.5 vol) then pushed on pure nitrogen (no beer-gas) using a perlick 575, would I need to push at 30 psi? Since it wouldn’t be going through a restrictor plate I would imagine one wouldn’t need such a high serving pressure… maybe something more like the 10-15 psi range? This would reduce the need to refill the nitrogen tank?

How many 5 gal cornys can you push using, say, a 20 cf N bottle?

No, the perlick 575 does not have a restrictor plate, and if that is the faucet you plan to use, there is really no point in using Nitrogen to push at all. The nitrogen is needed to prevent overcarb at the high pressure required to push through a restrictor plate. If you plan to use a perlick 575 you should set serving pressure the same as carbing pressure to maintain say 1.5 volumes.

Not sure how many kegs a 20cf bottle will push directly as I run mine through a gas blender, but I can easily push a 5 gallon keg with a 48ci hpa paintball tank filled with nitrogen and that is through a restrictor plate at 35psi.
 
Thanks again zazbnf for the help... I’m gonna have to owe you a beer or three!

If you plan to use a perlick 575 you should set serving pressure the same as carbing pressure to maintain say 1.5 volumes.

But, I don’t think one would be able to hold 1.5 volumes for the run of the keg… I assume eventually the stout will become over carbonated? Besides, running just co2 one would not get the creamy texture produced by the nitrogen (indirect) + restrictor plate + lower co2 level (direct)?

I’m after a very low carbonated, creamy, velvety (and ‘voluptuous’) stout (or Dunkelweizen?), it's the texture I want... I want a true on-tap Guinness pour and I’m sold on pushing on pure nitrogen to get this. I’m thinking, for a faucet, one of these (Guinness Stout Faucet)…

Guinness Stout.jpg
Guinness Stout 2.jpg

But is this the same as a 575 or does it have a restrictor plate***? The above pours (fwrd pull) and creams (bkwrd pull??) and looks a little smaller than this (a European Stout Faucet)…

EuroStout.jpg

A discrepancy that I cannot find any info on. Are they essentially the same? Maybe Guinness consolidated a traditional European stout faucet into something smaller?
Not sure how many kegs a 20cf bottle will push directly as I run mine through a gas blender, but I can easily push a 5 gallon keg with a 48ci hpa paintball tank filled with nitrogen and that is through a restrictor plate at 35psi.

I’ve seen some gas blenders online… but those are out of my reach at this time. From your response I’m assuming on a 80cf tank I’d be okay for a year and maybe more. I’m calling my fill station tomorrow and will let you know about the nitrogen fill-refill on argon.

As a side note: I’m all ears if anyone can say that without much notice in texture, a perlick 575 on straight co2 at low volumes can produce the same texture (over the run of the 5 gal corny keg, say over a months’ time) as nitrogen (or beer gas) with a stout faucet. Actually, from all that I’ve read no one has explicitly said that but I am getting this implicitly from Perlick 575 fans. I’d appreciate this as it’d save me close to $300…Prosit, skull, cheers and all!


***(actually, after looking at your ball-chain-brewpub-build zazbnf I notice you have these faucets on your awesome ceramic tower! Is it air or glycol cooled? Nice build so far but still trying to picture the final look)
 
View attachment 44696
But is this the same as a 575 or does it have a restrictor plate***? The above pours (fwrd pull) and creams (bkwrd pull??) and looks a little smaller than this (a European Stout Faucet)…


I've been running a beer gas (co2/nitrogen mix) setup for a few months, and the tap that I have looks exactly like the one in this pic. There is a restrictor plate inside that has six holes, and which slows down the flow of beer considerably. I think this is more or less exactly what you'll get from the "european" style stout faucet that you also pictured there, though I know there is some variation in the amount of restriction on a faucet-by-faucet basis.

I also think that it will be really difficult to achieve the truly creamy/voluptuous texture you're after with CO2 alone, even with the Perlick creamer.

The Guinness tap handle marketing claims that it's doing something special on the "push" stroke that creates head. This is not true. The faucet is a simple cam mechanism that lifts a plunger and lets beer flow through the restrictor and faucet regardless of which way it's tipped. Tipping the handle, say, 10 degrees forward is the same as tipping it 10 degrees back. The range of motion is limited in the "push" direction, so I guess it's more foolproof that way, but it's not doing anything special internally.

I don't own a Perlick creamer, but from the design it looks like it really is doing something different on the "push" vs. the standard pull -- that is, it's letting beer into the glass through the equivalent of the Guinness/stout style restrictor (though it's a single narrow channel instead of six holes). But this *only* happens on the "push" stroke.

To pull a correct/creamy Guinness, the entire pint passes through the restrictor. It's high pressure, and if you let it sit for a few, the texture is the same regardless of how much or how little you pour, or how far open you hold the valve.

In the Perlick/CO2-only design, you basically have under-pressurized (and under-carbonated?) beer, and you let it flow normally through the faucet, then you top it off with artificially foamy beer by quickly reducing the pressure by forcing it through a small orifice just before serving. My guess is that this will yield a close approximation aesthetically, but that the foam will dissipate quickly, and the rest of the beer won't have the same creamy texture throughout.

Seems like a good opportunity for an experiment next time I have two Guinness kegs and a Perlick creamer faucet on hand ;) In the meantime, let us know how you make out.
 
A discrepancy that I cannot find any info on. Are they essentially the same? Maybe Guinness consolidated a traditional European stout faucet into something smaller?

It apprears that all of the pics you posted are stout faucets and would have a restrictor plate, but I would double check with the vendors. I got my stout faucet on e-bay for a pretty good price several years ago.

I’ve seen some gas blenders online… but those are out of my reach at this time. From your response I’m assuming on a 80cf tank I’d be okay for a year and maybe more. I’m calling my fill station tomorrow and will let you know about the nitrogen fill-refill on argon.

I would assume an 80cf tank would last a good long while, as for my gas blender, that was also an e-bay deal. Up until I got the blender I ran beer gas which was very expensive here. I have still yet to make back the cost of the gas blender on beer gas savings, but someday it will be a break even and it is much more reliable. Although now that I think back on it when I switched from Beer gas to Nitrogen and CO2 I did trade in my beer gas tank as an even swap from my nitrogen tank since they were the same size.

***(actually, after looking at your ball-chain-brewpub-build zazbnf I notice you have these faucets on your awesome ceramic tower! Is it air or glycol cooled? Nice build so far but still trying to picture the final look)

Thanks, yes my tower has the Guinness branded faucet and has a restrictor plate, the tower is air cooled, and so far have not had a problem with foaming. I have made some more progress on my electric build, just need to build or find a brewstand at this point and bring it all together. I will be posting more pics as I get things settled.

mmccurdy, thanks for the informative description of how the perlick 575 works, The only thing I knew about them was they didn't have a restrictor plate.
 
I've been running a beer gas (co2/nitrogen mix) setup for a few months, and the tap that I have looks exactly like the one in this pic. There is a restrictor plate inside that has six holes, and which slows down the flow of beer considerably. I think this is more or less exactly what you'll get from the "european" style stout faucet that you also pictured there, though I know there is some variation in the amount of restriction on a faucet-by-faucet basis.

Thanks mmccurdy, … I pulled the trigger and ebay’d a brand new Guinness faucet + handle + keg coupler. It was a little more than what I wanted to pay but cheaper than what online brew stores were selling just their European faucets for. Down the road I’ll fork out $40 for a 575 and do a comparison on just co2 then running a blend at 8 psi then at 30 psi N which I’m figuring will end up in a big mess!

edit: A big advantage, I’m assuming, is the cleanliness of the 575. I hear the restrictor plate in the stout faucets can easily get clogged with trub and mold/bacteria have ample space to grow. How often do you clean your faucets… please don’t tell me ‘after every pour’. :(

Now I need to research how to install this as I hear the threads are different from standard U.S. shanks...?

Zazbnf, my gas fill station charges $12 for 80 cf pure nitrogen onsite fill and since nitrogen is a ‘neutral’ gas the tank can later be filled with argon (or Ar CO2 mix)… now it’s a go for the 80 cf tank! :ban:

Thanks for all the help! :mug:
 
Thanks mmccurdy, … I pulled the trigger and ebay’d a brand new Guinness faucet + handle + keg coupler. It was a little more than what I wanted to pay but cheaper than what online brew stores were selling just their European faucets for. Down the road I’ll fork out $40 for a 575 and do a comparison on just co2 then running a blend at 8 psi then at 30 psi N which I’m figuring will end up in a big mess!

edit: A big advantage, I’m assuming, is the cleanliness of the 575. I hear the restrictor plate in the stout faucets can easily get clogged with trub and mold/bacteria have ample space to grow. How often do you clean your faucets… please don’t tell me ‘after every pour’. :(

Yeah a side-by-side comparison would be interesting. I got my faucet/handle on eBay also. While it's not super high quality (it's chrome and plastic), I do feel like it's "to spec" in terms of the quality of the pour -- exactly the same as you would get from a pub that takes the time to pour a proper pint. There are definitely higher quality stout faucets out there in stainless and brass, but as you say they're double or triple the price.

If I let the faucet sit for like a week or so without dispensing (but really, how often does that happen? ;)) then I have noticed a tiny amount of what looks like dried up beer will get blown out when I pull the handle. I typically just clear this down the drain and pour away. I have not had any mold issues. The seal is behind (above) the restrictor plate, but I think what might be happening is that the capillary action of the beer between the valve and the restrictor keeps a small volume locked up behind it such that the only part exposed to air is the surface area of the holes themselves. I have no idea if that's accurate, because when you unscrew the black tip, the plate comes out too, so it's hard to say.

The Perlick definitely seals the entire volume behind the forward seal, so it looks like a much better design from that standpoint. FWIW, I'm assuming you've seen this, but here's the cutaway I'm looking at:

3798504002_62a231c518.jpg


Now I need to research how to install this as I hear the threads are different from standard U.S. shanks...?

Mine threaded right up to my standard (US spec) shank in my tower.
 
Back
Top