Kegerator and line balancing questions

[rjolin01]

Hi everyone! I just turned a spare fridge into a kegerator currently with four taps. Planning on adding a fifth tap eventually for a nitro tap.

I plan on having the co2 and beer gas tanks on outside. Question 1: is it usually safe to drill through the side of a fridge or are there coolant line running throughout?

I wan to put a hole just large enough to fit the tubing through and probably caulk or spray foam the hole to keep from leaking.

In reference to line balancing, using the formula where 3/16" tube has resistance of 3 psi and having the taps within 3" of top of kegs (so not a big factor) I have 5 feet of tubing currently (so I can open door)
Question 2: Is 15psi on the regulator a good setting? Would this also be ok for carbing most beers?

If I doing math correct that would be zero at the tap which I believe is accepted.

I have read all the literature I could fine but I tend to second guess myself a lot! Would like other opinions!

Cheers!

 

[johnwpowell]

Hi everyone! I just turned a spare fridge into a kegerator currently with four taps. Planning on adding a fifth tap eventually for a nitro tap.

I plan on having the co2 and beer gas tanks on outside. Question 1: is it usually safe to drill through the side of a fridge or are there coolant line running throughout?

I wan to put a hole just large enough to fit the tubing through and probably caulk or spray foam the hole to keep from leaking.

In reference to line balancing, using the formula where 3/16" tube has resistance of 3 psi and having the taps within 3" of top of kegs (so not a big factor) I have 5 feet of tubing currently (so I can open door)
Question 2: Is 15psi on the regulator a good setting? Would this also be ok for carbing most beers?

If I doing math correct that would be zero at the tap which I believe is accepted.

I have read all the literature I could fine but I tend to second guess myself a lot! Would like other opinions!

Cheers!

Do not drill through the sides. I wasted a nearly 1000 fridge adding taps to the side and I was careful and still hit a line.

 

[rjolin01]

Do not drill through the sides. I wasted a nearly 1000 fridge adding taps to the side and I was careful and still hit a line.

Any suggestions on best way to do gas line?

 

[johnwpowell]

Any suggestions on best way to do gas line?

Id also like to move my tank outside but reluctant. If I were to do it is probably try to make a home in the back. Check out these links https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...2AD235448118B134B9BC2AD235448118B&FORM=VRDGAR

https://www.kegoutlet.com/high-pressure-hose-regulator-connection-hose.html

 

[Yooper]

5' of serving line is WAY too short. Generally, 1' per psi on the regulator (at fridge temps) works for many.

There is a line calculator out that many swear works well, although I've never used it. I think it's this one: http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

15 psi is probably too high for most regular ales, depending on your fridge temp. I use 12 psi for 40 degrees, for a co2 volume of 2.47. Here's a chart that shows the volume at a certain temperature and a pressure: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

 

[johnwpowell]

5' of serving line is WAY too short. Generally, 1' per psi on the regulator (at fridge temps) works for many.

There is a line calculator out that many swear works well, although I've never used it. I think it's this one: http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

15 psi is probably too high for most regular ales, depending on your fridge temp. I use 12 psi for 40 degrees, for a co2 volume of 2.47. Here's a chart that shows the volume at a certain temperature and a pressure: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

So 12 foot of line for 12 psi? I run about 5 foot but have flow control on my taps. I do find my pours a bit foamy and wondering if I need longer lines

 

[rjolin01]

5' of serving line is WAY too short. Generally, 1' per psi on the regulator (at fridge temps) works for many.



There is a line calculator out that many swear works well, although I've never used it. I think it's this one: http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/



15 psi is probably too high for most regular ales, depending on your fridge temp. I use 12 psi for 40 degrees, for a co2 volume of 2.47. Here's a chart that shows the volume at a certain temperature and a pressure: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

With all the sources I find it says a loss of 3 psi/ft for 3/16" vinyl tubing. So if you are set at 12psi and going 12ft wouldn't that be a pressure of -24psi at the tap?

This is the main source: http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/

With this formula: L = (keg_pressure – 1 psi) / Resistance

L=(16-1)/3
L=15/3
L=5

 

[day_trippr]

With all the sources I find it says a loss of 3 psi/ft for 3/16" vinyl tubing. [...]

All the sources you found are wrong.

Cheers!

 

[rjolin01]

All the sources you found are wrong.



Cheers!

Care to back this statement up?

 

[rjolin01]

Anyways, I will give the calculator Yooper suggested a shot and order a bunch tubing and try longer length. Just sucks going to have all that tubing in the fridge.

 

[day_trippr]

Soitenly!

A long time ago someone who didn't understand tubing used a manufacturer's performance specification incorrectly and came up with the magic 3 psi per foot figure. That number was almost certainly the flow resistance at the maximum supported pressure - something that does not apply for dispensing beer.

Everyone copied that "formula", and result is this forum is riddled with dispensing problems that get cured with proper line lengths.

Blessedly, Mike S. offers a calculator that doesn't defy physics, and comes with an education to boot.

http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

Cheers!

 

[rjolin01]

Thank you! I am type that likes to learn reasoning behind things. I am overly ANALytical about things like that!

 

[Yooper]

With all the sources I find it says a loss of 3 psi/ft for 3/16" vinyl tubing. So if you are set at 12psi and going 12ft wouldn't that be a pressure of -24psi at the tap?

This is the main source: http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/07/14/keg-line-length-balancing-the-science-of-draft-beer/

With this formula: L = (keg_pressure – 1 psi) / Resistance

L=(16-1)/3
L=15/3
L=5

No. Because the loss of 3 psi/ft is an incorrect starting place.

That's why most line calculators don't work, and people who use them have foamy pours.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

You had me at "Hi everyone"
Can't get any nicer then that

Go by the line calculator mentoned....or....get a sanke keg and forget all the worries..
For example here is a perfect pour with a sanke and 4 FT lines I just poured reading this thread....it really is hassle free

 

[day_trippr]

Surprisingly, someone forgot to mention his flow control faucet...

Cheers!

 

[jmcquesten]

Surprisingly, someone forgot to mention his flow control faucet...

Cheers!

Hahaha. Maybe with Yooper answering and referencing THE line length calculator, it's just too hard to argue this time.

Also, is the line length calculator linked on the site anywhere, or a sticky? It seems like it should be put at the top of an introduction to kegging thread or something. The topic appears as much as the Korean spam...

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

LOL....I was thinking about but I thought I would let it slide this time....I actually haven't used it in awhile. Things seem to be flowing fine without it...not complaining

I think I'm coming to realize the sanke is the key to short lines and perfect pours.

 

[rjolin01]

So with multiple types of beer needing different carb levels, how do most manage this? Just carb everything to same regardless type? Use multiple secondary regulators? Don't worry so much about it?

 

[day_trippr]

I expect most folks run a single pressure across whatever they have on tap.
At the other extreme are those running gangs of secondary regs.

I have a 6 faucet keezer, one faucet is dedicated to nitro stout service, one faucet for beers that like higher carb levels than "normal", and the other four are set to the same 2.5 volume pressure at my dispensing temperature. So, three regulators - the nitro reg, and a dual-primary CO2 reg.

The high-carb beer line is an extra 5 feet longer than the 12 footers on the other four CO2 lines (the stout tap is barely 6 feet as extra length works against the whole nitro paradigm)...

Cheers!

 

[jmcquesten]

LOL....I was thinking about but I thought I would let it slide this time....I actually haven't used it in awhile. Things seem to be flowing fine without it...not complaining

I think I'm coming to realize the sanke is the key to short lines and perfect pours.

Never heard of sankes being better for foam. Any idea how it helps? I'm trying to figure out what would make the difference.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Never heard of sankes being better for foam. Any idea how it helps? I'm trying to figure out what would make the difference.

To be honest I have no idea. I'm not a designer of kegs

I've had corneys and done the line balancing act. I switched to sankes and they just work better.
There is a reason every kegertor comes with short lines and sanke taps without issue...If they all had issues they would change the setup.
Carb levels are carb levels, doesn't matter if its homebrew or not.

Cornys Are soda kegs
Sankes are beer kegs
They are completely different in design
Every single establishment in the entire country uses sanke kegs...if corneys were better they would use them.

 

[johnwpowell]

I have the same length lines in my fridge (5ft) with these flow control taps. https://www.morebeer.com/products/intertap-sealing-stainless-flow-control-faucet.html

This works pretty well for me but might be worth looking into my line lengths. This is what I love about home brewing. There is always something new to learn.

 

[Sadu]

I'm intrigued by this line length concept. I just started kegging, kegged up a schwarzbier, sitting at about 12psi in the fridge. Not even sure how cold the fridge is.

Can't afford taps yet so it's 2m/6' of 5.5mm hose (sorry, too hard to convert this to imperial fractions) plus a picnic tap for a while.

I was expecting to have to deal with foam and BS until I got it dialed in, but honestly the pour is amazing. Solid 2 finger head on top every time without having to work controlling the pour and it tastes delicious. The foam has a certain quality that bottle conditioned beer doesn't have, I really like it.

Not sure if I just got lucky or what?