KBS Clone Recipe in Zymurgy!

[DonnieZ]

The primary fermentation took almost two months? I would bet that's your off flavor culprit. That's an awful long time, and yeast could be dying off and causing off flavors. Plus using dry yeast for a 9 abv beer would seem to be too stressful for the yeast which would also cause them to produce weird flavors.

I've made enough fermentation mistakes that I've learned to make starters for big beers, don't leave it on the yeast too long and most importantly, take care of fermentation temps.

Fermentation was done in about 2 weeks. However, It finished in the 1022 range, and I thought I'd get a few more points out of it by raising the temperature of the fermentation chamber up into the high 60's / low 70s.

According to MrMalty, I needed about 288 billion cells. I should have needed less than 1.4 satchets of dry yeast - I pitched two, which given average cell count per package of dry yeast, should have been around 400 billion cells. Even accounting for some of the dry yeast not being viable, I still think I had a decent pitching rate.

I do think autolysis could be an issue though - I will definitely not leave it on the yeast for so long next time. If I do brew this again, I will definitely make a starter but I'm not fully convinced this is a pitching rate / yeast health issue.

 

[Foosier]

I would definitely look at your water if yu hadn't already. if your PH is off, it can make a dark beer taste off.

 

[TrickyDick]

Good point on the water profile, mash pH. I'll point out again, that mine is definitely lacking the licorice flavor that the real stuff has. Does anyone else notice this??

Mine was only 9.5%. I think I calculated that to hit 11.2% it would take a liter of bourbon. My keg is about 2/3 full. I had it on nitro and am letting it off gas then force carbonate and bottle carbonated with beer gun.

TD

 

[ianmatth]

According to MrMalty, I needed about 288 billion cells. I should have needed less than 1.4 satchets of dry yeast - I pitched two, which given average cell count per package of dry yeast, should have been around 400 billion cells.

Mr. Malty is getting their info from a single flawed study. The Fermentis website itself only claims 6 billion cells per gram. I use Brewer's Friend, it has many more options. Also, at this high of gravity you should be pitching at least 1.0. That means you'd need over 460 billion cells for a 5 gallon batch at 1.092 OG. I used a lot more oak and had a great oak flavor. Also if you didn't actually add the bourbon you won't get the bourbon flavor.

 

[DonnieZ]

Mr. Malty is getting their info from a single flawed study. The Fermentis website itself only claims 6 billion cells per gram. I use Brewer's Friend, it has many more options. Also, at this high of gravity you should be pitching at least 1.0. That means you'd need over 460 billion cells for a 5 gallon batch at 1.092 OG. I used a lot more oak and had a great oak flavor. Also if you didn't actually add the bourbon you won't get the bourbon flavor.

Even Beersmith didn't say I needed that many cells. Remember, my OG came out around 1079, not 1092.

 

[DonnieZ]

I would definitely look at your water if yu hadn't already. if your PH is off, it can make a dark beer taste off.

I brew with distilled and add salts accordingly, using Bru'n Water as my calculator for what salts to add. I don't have the exact profile here, but I can get it later when I'm home.

 

[ianmatth]

Even Beersmith didn't say I needed that many cells. Remember, my OG came out around 1079, not 1092.

Remember? You never mentioned your OG nor how many gallons you ended up with in primary anywhere in this thread. Anyway, that's 440 billion cells for a 5.5 gallon batch pitching at 1.0 (assuming you had a 5.5 gallon batch since a default calculation at 0.75 would give 330 billion cells.) S-04 tested at 8 billion cells per gram, so I would make the same assumption for US-05 and pitch 55g to hit that number of cells. It's unfortunate that some of these calculators think dry yeast has 20 billion cells per gram as a lot of people are probably under-pitching when they think they are actually over-pitching.

 

[DonnieZ]

Anyway, that's 440 billion cells for a 5.5 gallon batch pitching at 1.0 (assuming you had a 5.5 gallon batch since a default calculation at 0.75 would give 330 billion cells.) S-04 tested at 8 billion cells per gram, so I would make the same assumption for US-05 and pitch 55g to hit that number of cells. It's unfortunate that some of these calculators think dry yeast has 20 billion cells per gram as a lot of people are probably under-pitching when they think they are actually over-pitching.

Mr. Malty is getting their info from a single flawed study. .

You make some pretty brash statements against Mr. Malty. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if I'm putting my money on who knows what they're talking about when it comes to yeast between a random Internet stranger and Jamil Zainasheff, my money goes on Jamil 100% of the time.

Can you point me in the direction of some evidence that speaks to the flaws in Mr. Malty, that includes actual findings and not just the word of other Internet randoms?

 

[ianmatth]

http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/#cells_per_gram

Link to a researcher claiming 20B, but only has an n of 1: http://www.danstaryeast.com/articles/cell-count-and-glycogen

I said flawed study because I see n of 1. I looked at the link and I would actually refer to it as an observation rather than a study. I took a look at Mr. Malty again and Jamil says he has done many counts on dry yeast that measure 20 billion. He also mentions Dr. Clayton Cone and other folks I trust. No link to a proper study, but implying multiple observations. I personally would like to see what Jamil says laid out in a little more detail regarding the exact yeast, exact count, and how many observations he made, but since I've never looked at yeast under a microscope and I actually can't find ANY real research on specific dry yeast counts (I can't find the data for the Van Den Berg & Van Landschoot study) I certainly have no evidence to challenge what he says. I've been using the brewersfriend.com rates of 10 billion cells per gram (which is much closer to what the manufacturer claims) with great success and will continue to do so until I see some REAL research on specific dry yeast, but maybe I am over-pitching. I also like their calculator much better.

 

[lael]

Brewer in Aus here. Looking to make this, but Kona coffee is hard to locate down here. Are you guys using blends or 100% single source?

What is the flavour profile of Kona? Any coffee snobs able to explain what flavour pallette it might be contributing?
Thinking that both additions might end up being Sumatran. Any comments?

 

[cdykstra]

Brewer in Aus here. Looking to make this, but Kona coffee is hard to locate down here. Are you guys using blends or 100% single source?

What is the flavour profile of Kona? Any coffee snobs able to explain what flavour pallette it might be contributing?
Thinking that both additions might end up being Sumatran. Any comments?

I use single source Ethiopian beans for this that I roast myself. I wouldn't worry if you can't find Kona; just use a coffee that you really enjoy.

 

[tonesmith]

100% pure Kona has very little acidity and flavor. Its very light and subtle. In a medium roast its bright and slightly nutty. Further roasting gives a a slight chocolatey flavor.

Its a nice coffee but in my opinion is not very flavorful and i believe its so popular because most people like it who are every day drinkers and not people who love the wonderful complex character of coffees such as Ethiopian, Brazilian, Mexican or Central American coffees.

But then again I have only had one real kona variety from one plantation and that was a few years ago.

 

[tonesmith]

And yes I agree with the above use a freshly ground coffee you like to drink (assuming your a coffee drinker who drinks it black) and im sure youll be happy.

 

[DaveMANIA]

I have a question.

When brewing this recipe, for the bittersweet chocolate I used Bakers Bittersweet Chocolate. Also, I left the cocoa nibs in the primary (should they still be in there for the primary or should they be discarded before racking to primary?)

I used Wyeast 1056.

After about 48 hours I still do not see any signs of fermentation taking place. Is this because of the chocolate? Could there be other reasons? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DonnieZ]

After about 48 hours I still do not see any signs of fermentation taking place. Is this because of the chocolate? Could there be other reasons? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

What was your OG and how big of a starter did you use?

 

[DaveMANIA]

OG was 1.06. Does that sound about right?

I guess I was just impatient. By the time I woke up the next morning the fermentation was going crazy.

 

[jonnyhammastix]

Getting my strike water up to temp for my KBS as we speak starter 5am this morning ��. I am making a video of my brew day since I can't find a KBS clone video on YouTube. I may post it in steps since I plan to let it sit until around December before bottling. So much good information on this thread, the home brew community is the ****! Any ideas dme beers to pickup from the beer store today for some insperation to this beer, since I can't get the real thing?

 

[jonnyhammastix]

So I am not too sure how this brew day went. I have a 9gal kettle - E-BIAB E-Rim system. A 5 gal ~10%abv is. Challenge in this system. Mashed the grains into 5.75 gallons of water at 155 for 60 minutes. Had to kill the pump and stop recirc every 10 minutes to loosen the grain bed. Valve was hardly open as I have learned through my brew days on this system. After removing the grain bag and basket I was left with 4 gallons at 1.80 (est og 1.093-1.095). Batch sparged to raise my volume and ended up with 7.5 gallons at 1.060 preboil. The recipe calls for a 90 min boil so to try and raise my Gravity I let it boil 120min.

At this point I'm bumming out hard. I always hit my numbers so spot on and it was just not jiving with me hitting .03 points low. While transgerimg through the plate chiller I pulled a sample to test the gravity... 1.092. How is that even possible??

Can I get some numbers from people who have brewed a RIS or the KBS clone? Looking for some pre boil gravities to see if raising your gravity .032 points from a 120 min boil (only half hour longer than proposed boil length).

 

[JrBeerGut]

I brewed something similar to this a couple days ago and it's in the fermenter now. I didn't add coffee to the kettle at flameout though. I just bought some Sumatra and Kona coffee yesterday. Would it be ok to add some cold brewed Sumatra coffee to the fermenter at this point and let it go for a couple weeks or should I wait and add both coffee's after a couple weeks to the primary and then let it go for one more week?

 

[DonnieZ]

I brewed something similar to this a couple days ago and it's in the fermenter now. I didn't add coffee to the kettle at flameout though. I just bought some Sumatra and Kona coffee yesterday. Would it be ok to add some cold brewed Sumatra coffee to the fermenter at this point and let it go for a couple weeks or should I wait and add both coffee's after a couple weeks to the primary and then let it go for one more week?

Coffee tends to fade fast. Not as fast as some hops, but it fades fast.

My coffee stouts lately have simply been grounds in secondary, then I cold crash and put some kind of filter over the siphon when going into the keg.

I'd move it off the yeast, let it sit until you think it's ready to drink, then hit it with the coffee grounds for about 4 days or so, crash, then keg, carb, and serve.

 

[friarsmith]

Fist bump to this recipe! I scaled the exact recipe posted by John51277 up to 11gal and brewed it 12/31/15.

*Mashed in the mid 150’s for 90 mins. Fly sparge. 90 minute boil
*Oxygenated wort w/ pure O2 on the brewday an morning after
*Pitched ~1000B cells of BRY97 from a one week ramped starter
*Fermented 14 days at 62deg ambient (1.092 to 1.018)
*Kegged directly from primary. Geez, talk about some gunk in the bottom! No washed yeast from this batch.
*Soaked two 4 inch oak half-spirals… one in 5oz Rum and the other in 5oz Knob Creek for 2 weeks or so during PF
*Kegged on day 15 into cornys. Each keg received 6oz of a 1.040 DME starter and one of the oak+booze mixes. Also added 4oz Blackstrap molasses to the rum oak keg for a Jamaica Breakfast Stout edition (aka JBS)

After 14 days in the keg in my basement, both are nicely carbonated and the oak is just starting to peek through. The JBS definitely has a rum profile, and the KBS seems to be on course to match up with it’s namesake in several months. Planning to age this beer in kegs another month or so then bottle-gun into 12’s and 22’s.

 

[MikeSchulz]

Just read through all the post. My head is swimming. What is the best method of carbonizing the bottles. I figure after leaving in secondary for 2 months or so the yeast are done.

 

[mtnagel]

Add some fresh yeast when bottling. The amount doesn't matter so much. I usually go for a half packet of dry yeast for 5 gallons. Rehydrate, add to the bottling bucket and stir gently into the beer.

 

[NickLazy]

Im Gonna brew this in a few days, but having trouble figuring out the botteling and priming process. Im quite new in brewing and havent heard of adding yeast later for carbonating. Is that really a thing, and should I also add priming sugar? And what would be a good level for carbonating?
Was thinking of leaving it for 4-5 months in secondary.

 

[hottpeper13]

I leave mine in secondary for up to 8 mo. so I make a yeast and sugar addition to the bottling bucket. 3.5 - 4 oz corn sugar to 12 oz water, boil (in microwave) and cool. In separate pyrex container boil and cool ~8 oz tap water and add 3-6 grams of CBC dry yeast. Let it hydrate until nice and creamy then put both in bucket and rack your beer. I just tried this in a keg and it starts week # 2 today,this way I can just put it in the cellar until Thanksgiving.

 

[GatorWayne]

I am in Japan and cannot seem to find Sumatra coffee except for a K-cup. How much brewed coffee would you recommend putting into the brew?

 

[tonesmith]

Edit to reply.

 

[tonesmith]

I am in Japan and cannot seem to find Sumatra coffee except for a K-cup. How much brewed coffee would you recommend putting into the brew?

Dont use a K cup!

Find a nice cold brewed coffee, Starbucks actually makes a good one, make sure its the blackened unsweet one.

As far as how much to add, I'd start low and add as needed. How much coffee flavor do you want to come out?

I would add 1/4 cup per 5 gallons and go from there.

 

[GatorWayne]

I was just trying to stick with the coffee the recipe calls for. I have a french press and we use Kona coffee so that part was easy. I will probably just grab some other grounds and toss them in the kettle. made the breakfast stout before and the coffee part was a bit too strong, not strong enough to stop me from drinking all of them though.

 

[braindead]

What water profile would you go with.
Read you need the correct profile for an Imperial Stout to help reduce off flavours.
My current profile

Calcium 11.5
Magnesium 2.56
Sodium 13.1
Chloride 12.4
Sulfate 26.5