Just a simple, straight-up Hefeweizen - some qustions

[TasunkaWitko]

I would like to brew a simple, straight-up Hefeweizen (nothing fancy or elaborate) with 50% German Wheat malt and Floor-Malted Pilsner.

The yeast will be Danstar Munich Classic.
The hops will be Hallertau.
This will be a 1-gallon batch.
My desired ABV will be somewhere between 5 and 5.5%.
My ambient temperatures while fermenting will be in low-to-mid 60s.

Within those parameters, I have a couple of questions, and I'd be grateful for some guidance.

I will not be doing a decoction mash, what is the maximum percentage of Melanoidin that should I should use?

Should I use 50/50 Wheat and Pilsner and add the percentage of Melanoidin to that, or should I make the Melanoidin part of the Pilsner's 50%?

I normally do three hop additions (60, 30 and toward the end); for a Hefeweizen, should I vary that practice?

If I remember correctly, the lower fermentation temperatures will give me the clove; is there anything simple that I can do (such as over-pitching) to bring up the banana just enough to put everything at a closer balance? My goal is to not have one or the other dominate, and I do understand that within my parameters, it will be a hard task. I'm not obsessive about this last factor, but any general guidance will be helpful.

Thanks in advance -

Ron

 

[Smellyglove]

I have never used that yeast, so I can't help with the fermentation.. But you really only need one bittering addition for a hefe at 10-12 IBU, buf if you want some more taste/aroma for the hops just add some in at 15.

I'd use the melano as part of the pilsner grist. You'd want at least 50% wheat in a hefe. I myself prefer them at 60-65% wheat.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

BrewDay is tomorrow, Sunday at the latest.

If I remember correctly, Weyermann states that 20% is the max for Melanoidin, so in the absence of any advice to the contrary I'll go with that, as part of the "other" 50% opposite the wheat (in other words, 50% Wheat, 30% Pilsner and 20% Melanoidin). I'll work out a hop schedule of some kind and over-pitch a little...and then see what happens.

If any of this is a huge mistake, let me know ~

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I have never used that yeast, so I can't help with the fermentation.. But you really only need one bittering addition for a hefe at 10-12 IBU, buf if you want some more taste/aroma for the hops just add some in at 15.

I'd use the melano as part of the pilsner grist. You'd want at least 50% wheat in a hefe. I myself prefer them at 60-65% wheat.

Hi, SG, and thanks -Your thoughts are pretty close to mine. I did plan a bittering addition and one for taste/aroma - just wondering if anything is needed in-between. In future brews, I do plan to up the percentage of wheat; 60 for sure and I wouldn't mind 65 at all. This one, I'm keeping it basic, so I can learn a few things and establish a baseline as it is my first "on my own" Hefeweizen without a recipe or pre-packaged mix.

 

[Smellyglove]

Hi, SG, and thanks -Your thoughts are pretty close to mine. I did plan a bittering addition and one for taste/aroma - just wondering if anything is needed in-between. In future brews, I do plan to up the percentage of wheat; 60 for sure and I wouldn't mind 65 at all. This one, I'm keeping it basic, so I can learn a few things and establish a baseline as it is my first "on my own" Hefeweizen without a recipe or pre-packaged mix.

Do not use 20% melano. Go something like 5%.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

To be honest, that does sound a little more reasonable; I know that it can really add a nice character to a beer, but too much of a good thing is not good.

 

[Smellyglove]

To be honest, that does sound a little more reasonable; I know that it can really add a nice character to a beer, but too much of a good thing is not good.

Everything can add a nice character to a beer, if used properly

 

[HB_ATL73]

Some of the best hefeweizens I've made actually came from underpitching (meaning just using 1 vial liquid yeast without a starter) and staying away from low ferm temps. I've tried out 62-64 deg before and you just don't get the esters and phenols like you do when you ferment in the high 60's and low 70's. In fact I just finished a keg that used Wyeast 3068@ 62 deg 50/50% wheat and pilsner and it was just so bland to me without the banana/clove/spicy esters I like in a good hefeweizen.

 

[Smellyglove]

It all depends on the yeast. But underpitching is a "classical" thing to do with hefes, which doesn't make it underpitching anymore. Although it's not strictly needed, as you can tailor a lot with mash regime and fermentation temps.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Okay - I could probably do this. I'm looking for a decent balance with the clove/banana/spice (not more of one or another), so....

My yeast is Danstar Munich Classic (a dry version of 3068, according to German homebrewers); it is an 11-gram package and this is a 1-gallon batch. Normally, I simply use half the package for a 1-gallon batch, which would be 5.5 grams, so would perhaps 3 grams be considered an under-pitch? It does not have to be correct to the 6th decimal - I'm just looking for a general idea, here.

I can also bring up ambient temperatures to something around 65-69 degrees with little or no trouble, I think.

 

[Smellyglove]

I really don't know. I've used 3068 but it will not be the same as the Danstar Classic for sure.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Well, There's Danstar Munich, and then there's Munich Classic - I have no actual, science-based knowledge, just this:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...lassic-or-danstar-munich.570551/#post-7431068

I have tried both side-by-side, and I prefer the Munich Classic, which produced beer that was more in-line with what I was expecting from a Hefeweizen.

Anyway, it's the only yeast I have in the refrigerator, other than some Saison yeast and S33, so it's what I'll have to use, either way.

 

[HB_ATL73]

Okay - I could probably do this. I'm looking for a decent balance with the clove/banana/spice (not more of one or another), so....

My yeast is Danstar Munich Classic (a dry version of 3068, according to German homebrewers); it is an 11-gram package and this is a 1-gallon batch. Normally, I simply use half the package for a 1-gallon batch, which would be 5.5 grams, so would perhaps 3 grams be considered an under-pitch? It does not have to be correct to the 6th decimal - I'm just looking for a general idea, here.

I can also bring up ambient temperatures to something around 65-69 degrees with little or no trouble, I think.

I have never used this yeast but I have 3068 multiple times and a very low ferm temp did not produce what I was looking for- 65-69 will be just fine. The higher you go the more esters you get. If you use a yeast pitch calculator like this - https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/ you can see how much yeast to pitch- 5 grams @ a 1.040-1.050 should be sufficient for 1 gal. If you really want to underpitch you can do 3 grams and that will still be very close to an appropriate pitch rate. Also, I am not saying you have to underpitch I think you will find youll make a good hefeweizen without underpitching as wel

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Thanks, guys - I'll see what I can do and will try to post results.

 

[Smellyglove]

Just brew it and adjust for the next one

 

[Griffin495]

I usually use about a 1/3 or 3.5g of dry yeast for a gallon batch and it always works out fine for me, FYI

 

[TasunkaWitko]

 

[TasunkaWitko]

BrewDay is tomorrow, Sunday at the latest.

LOL - BrewDay never happened, due to a lot of reasons - however, since I have everything I need and am waiting on some yeast to arrive for my Chamomile Belgian Blonde project:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...hops-chamomile-blonde-tips-and-advice.664664/

I might as well see if I can get this brewed over the weekend.

I had originally planned on 50% Wheat, 45% Pilsner and 5% Melanoidin; however, based on a lot of advice here and elsewhere, perhaps I'll bring that up to 60/35/5, instead.

More as it happens (if it happens), etc. &c....

Ron

 

[ebbelwoi]

Well, that would give you 120%... that'll be an awesome beer! I'm learning to do hefeweizens as well, and I've learned that too much wheat will lead to tartness. I just poured a glass of my recent batch (about 30 minutes ago), and it's much better at 60% wheat, 3.5% melanoidin, and the rest a mixture of pilsner, munich and carahell. For my next batch, I'm going to take the wheat down to 50%, and mash a little higher for some added sweetness.

Lots of good information here, translated from German: http://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

Also, I've read that Danstar Munich Classic is the same as 3068. I can't speak from experience, but I've been getting nice flavor and aroma from the Classic at higher temperatures (20C/68F and upwards). Keep us posted!

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Ha - typo!

My "go-to" Hefeweizen is similar to what you describe, but for this one I was hoping to make it as "no-frills" as possible. Maybe I'll stick to my original plan and leave the wheat at 50%, after all; although I'm probably splitting hairs, here .

 

[Coastalbrew]

I've never made a hefe all grain before so I can't comment on your grain bill. But I made an extract hefe last month, that has just finished bottle conditioning. I tasted the first bottle tonight and it is fantastic! I used imperial g01 stephon yeast in this batch which I think made the difference. I've made a similar batch before using a white labs strain. That batch was ok, but didn't have the balance of esters and fenolic flavors that I was looking for. This batch is spot on! A little darker in color than my favorite commercial example (probably due to the lme), but if I closed my eyes, I'd swear I was drinking Franziskaner. I can't recommend trying the imperial year enough.

 

[Qhrumphf]

A Hefe needs a step mash to get the best balance.

I do a good long (45 min) rest at 110F, this allows maximal ferulic acid that's metabolized by the yeast into 4VG (clove phenol). Then a very short protein rest, fairly short beta rest, and longer alpha rest.

I use 3068, pitch at 0.33 million cells per ml per °P, do not aerate at all, and ferment at 62F.

The low temp and ferulic acid rest give strong clove, while the low pitch rate and lack of oxygen keep a solid level of banana too. But it's clove balanced.

Caveat, while this makes for a Hefe that'll run with German classics (perhaps moreso if done proper LODO), it's VERY hard on the yeast and makes for poor harvested yeast vitality. 2nd gen takes longer and 3rd gen stops attenuating as much. After 3rd gen performance I won't try going to a 4th and often won't do 3rd.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I like 50% wheat malt, 10% flaked wheat (cheating, I know), 35% pils and 5% melanoidin (though if I have the time for a 12 hr brewday I'll skip the melanoidin for 40% pils and decoct each step).

 

[Jag75]

I use white wheat and 2 row . Northern Brewer hop addition @60 . Wlp hefeweizen yeast , no starter and fermented at 65. It really came out out amazing . It came out close to Franziskaner . The guy who owns the brewery in town was in the service and drank the Franz a lot he said. He was very pleased with it .

 

[Saunassa]

Also, I've read that Danstar Munich Classic is the same as 3068. I can't speak from experience, but I've been getting nice flavor and aroma from the Classic at higher temperatures (20C/68F and upwards). Keep us posted!

oz

The Munich Classic is the one to use vs the wb-06 that is included in some kits.

 

[ebbelwoi]

oz

The Munich Classic is the one to use vs the wb-06 that is included in some kits.

I haven't gotten good results from the WB-06 or the Munich (non-Classic) dry yeasts. Munich Classic is definitely the way to go.

 

[Saunassa]

Using the Munich Classic fermented in a 66 degree basement closet came out with a nice balance of clove to banana with a little tartness. 5 gallon batch pitched the yeast dry and left to ferment.