Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

[rlmiller10]

After you bottle how do you all end up storing? I know some folks just stick in a dark stable-temp (70-80) area, but I've heard some say you can put it in a cool location like a basement?

Store it like you would wine. A cool dark place about 55 to 60 is perfect but if a 67 degree basement is what you have that will work as well. Heat is the enemy of flavor, be it mead, spices, or wine.

 

[rlmiller10]

I have a 1 gallon batch going now, will be starting my 5 gallon later tonight. We went out yesterday and bought 32 pounds of honey, I can't decide yet which one I want to use, the orange blossom or the clover. I'll have to drink on it. Also, I just realized, scaling up the honey takes it to 17.5 pounds, seems like a bit much for 5 gallons.

I think I'm going to go with
D47 yeast
15 pounds honey plus or minus to reach 11-12% ABV
5 oranges
2 tsp Superfood nutrient May break that up into two feedings (skipping the raisins and adding 8oz of bee pollen I think, I also have DAP)

Spring water to fill the fermenter to 5 gallons.

I want a starting ABV of around 11-12% ABV to start, so will adjust the honey accordingly with readings from the hydro.

I am still working on my plan. Any help would be appreciated. Now, where'd I put my lab coat.

Add he DAP, skip the pollen. Read up on staggered nutrient feeding (that does not mean to do it drunk). But two feedings will work. 3 lb honey per gallon will be fine.

I have used D47 and it works fine, although I didn't see much difference between it and bread yeast. The D47 may have dropped out a bit sooner but I was still waiting for fruit to drop so it didn't make a difference since the fruit was the limiting factor.

 

[JDWebb]

Sounds like a plan, thank you. Can you explain about the pollen though? What's your take on it?

 

[rlmiller10]

Sounds like a plan, thank you. Can you explain about the pollen though? What's your take on it?

Pollen is mostly protein. Protein breaks down into nitrogen compounds so it might help. But I am not sure of the timing of the breakdown as it seems to be pretty stable (they pull pollen out of lake sediment to determine the plant life in the area thousands of years ago). So it seems that adding DAP which is readily available nitrogen and phosphate if I remember correctly would be much better.

 

[JDWebb]

Well, its in the brew. I was right in the middle of putting it all together when I saw this, and I put it in anyway!

So here it is

15 pounds of Orange Blossom Honey (pure)
5 medium sized oranges (I zested them without too much pith then juiced them)
1 1/2 tsp of Superfood (it called for 3 tsp but I added the pollen)
8oz bee pollen
D47 with re-hydro nutrient (I read that somewhere)
Enough spring water to bring it to just over 5 gallons (I anticipated the sediment at racking)
SG was about 1.110
ABV at about 14%

I will re-check the gravity in a few weeks to see where its at.

It all hit the fermenter around 3:30pm pst. Now, find my pillow and comforter, pull my overstuffed easy chair around, and watch the bubbler for the next....month...I hope it doesn't turn into one of those science projects you read about in the news sometimes.

 

[JDWebb]

Out of curiosity before I have to tell my wife that the white bucket is a top secret chemical for the government, how long should I wait typically before I see any activity from the airlock?

 

[Hanso]

I, um, made a small batch of this in October of 2013 that after 2 or 3 months was finally clear but the fruit had not dropped, so I put in the back of my wine fridge and forgot about... until now. What do you think, too old? It's been in a cheap plastic old apple juice gallon container this whole time... I wonder about oxidation as well as over exposure to clove.

 

[rlmiller10]

I, um, made a small batch of this in October of 2013 that after 2 or 3 months was finally clear but the fruit had not dropped, so I put in the back of my wine fridge and forgot about... until now. What do you think, too old? It's been in a cheap plastic old apple juice gallon container this whole time... I wonder about oxidation as well as over exposure to clove.

One way to know and that is to try it. It will probably be fine. This is a very forgiving recipe. If it were mine I would bottle it and if it is not great I would put it away for six months or a year and try it again.

 

[rlmiller10]

Out of curiosity before I have to tell my wife that the white bucket is a top secret chemical for the government, how long should I wait typically before I see any activity from the airlock?

It depends on how much yeast you pitched, the temperature and how well you aerated. You should see activity somewhere between 12 and 72 hours. My last batch with D47 was bubbling at 22 bubbles per minute at 24 hours. Two weeks later, the last time I recorded it, it was still at 12 bubbles per minute. Two weeks after that it must have stopped bubbling as I took a gravity and it was 1.006. Two months after that when I bottled it was down to 0.996 so there was still some work going on but the bubbling had stopped.

 

[JDWebb]

I made the decision to re-pitch last night at midnight after seeing no activity. I'm getting older by the day and didn't want to waste time sitting around waiting on a bubbler!

So, I re-hydro'd another D47 with some nutrients, slowly, with a shot glass, introduced some must, and it started fermenting right there! So I thought "OK, you're thirsty, I get it." So I kept giving it shot after shot of must until they were screaming with joy and I told them "hang on, you're going for a ride" and tossed them all into the bucket. I could hear screams coming from inside as I secured the lid, and went to bed. When I got up this morning, one of them was standing guard near the airlock as it was churning out CO2. I asked him what he was doing, and he looked at me with glazed over eyes, and kind of nodded towards the airlock. I suppose he was sniffing the CO2.

 

[tellyho]

I, um, made a small batch of this in October of 2013 that after 2 or 3 months was finally clear but the fruit had not dropped, so I put in the back of my wine fridge and forgot about... until now. What do you think, too old? It's been in a cheap plastic old apple juice gallon container this whole time... I wonder about oxidation as well as over exposure to clove.

Are you kidding! This is the ideal treatment. When I went into the LHBS we got talking about my batch and I was asking the guys when they would bottle. "Around 5 years" was the response. You may want to move it off the lees for some time, but I'm guessing it's pretty awesome.


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[tellyho]

I, um, made a small batch of this in October of 2013 that after 2 or 3 months was finally clear but the fruit had not dropped, so I put in the back of my wine fridge and forgot about... until now. What do you think, too old? It's been in a cheap plastic old apple juice gallon container this whole time... I wonder about oxidation as well as over exposure to clove.

Are you kidding! This is the ideal treatment. When I went into the LHBS we got talking about my batch and I was asking the guys when they would bottle. "Around 5 years" was the response. You may want to move it off the lees for some time, but I'm guessing it's pretty awesome.



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[bernardsmith]

Are you kidding! This is the ideal treatment. When I went into the LHBS we got talking about my batch and I was asking the guys when they would bottle. "Around 5 years" was the response. You may want to move it off the lees for some time, but I'm guessing it's pretty awesome.



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Hmmmm... I think if you ferment honey at very high temperatures and you don't provide sufficient nutrient for the yeast you may want to age the mead several years before drinking but if you ferment at lower temperatures and you provide adequate nutrition for the yeast you don't need to wait nearly as long. In the past (10 years or more ago) received opinion was that mead can take years to adequately age but you can make very delicious mead in a month (see Loveofrose's BOMM recipes.. and I make a hopped mead that is very drinkable in 4 months and a t'ej (Ethiopian mead) that is made to be drunk perhaps in 5-6 months). The secret is fermenting slowly at low temperatures...

 

[bernardsmith]

Are you kidding! This is the ideal treatment. When I went into the LHBS we got talking about my batch and I was asking the guys when they would bottle. "Around 5 years" was the response. You may want to move it off the lees for some time, but I'm guessing it's pretty awesome.



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Hmmmm...Just responding to the LHBS' reference to aging a mead for five years. I think if you ferment honey at very high temperatures and you don't provide sufficient nutrient for the yeast you may want to age the mead several years before drinking but if you ferment at lower temperatures and you provide adequate nutrition for the yeast you don't need to wait nearly as long. In the past (10 years or more ago) received opinion was that mead can take years to adequately age but you can make very delicious mead in a month (see Loveofrose's BOMM recipes.. and I make a hopped mead that is very drinkable in 4 months and a t'ej (Ethiopian mead) that is made to be drunk perhaps in 5-6 months). The secret is fermenting at low temperatures...

 

[tellyho]

Interesting. I suspect part of it hinges on one's definition of drinkable. Could I drink the JAOM I made recently at 2 months? Yes. It was not tasty, but it was drinkable. But I did ferment at higher temps. I'll have to try a cooler fermentation and see what happens. I have to imagine that things will only get better over time, though.


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[sablesurfer]

Attempting two different gallons of this tonight! Been meaning to forever.

One gallon has 3lbs of honey from my father's garage. Seems it had been harvested in '98 and when he passed in 2012 no one wanted it. I used some in a stout a while back, but this was what it was waiting for.

The other gallon is just going to be daisy honey from like Midwest Supplies or somewhere. It looks pretty good an raw, but going to use it as the control (kinda) against that 17yr old honey.

 

[sablesurfer]

Finally getting bubbles. OP implies that fermentation will start quickly. I used red star instead of flieshmans, and it was the normal yeast lag I'm used to for ales. Ancient mead in back. Front is using pollen as energizer and mino choi's staggered nutrient steps.
Left is daisy honey, right is 17yr old wild flower.

View attachment 1421069745708.jpg

 

[cbell7492]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1421116649.430687.jpg

Started this on October 31st. Then all the fruit dropped to the bottom so I racked it off into this yesterday. Hasn't cleared any, will it end up clearing?

 

[JINKS]

View attachment 248474

Started this on October 31st. Then all the fruit dropped to the bottom so I racked it off into this yesterday. Hasn't cleared any, will it end up clearing?

If you followed the recipe you should be fine, it will clear.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/joes-ancient-orange-mead-49106/index52.html#post6441379

Mine cleared before the fruit dropped and here is how clear it is in the bottle

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/joes-ancient-orange-mead-49106/index53.html#post6565190

 

[sablesurfer]

Mine cleared before the fruit dropped and here is how clear it is in the bottle

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/joes-ancient-orange-mead-49106/index53.html#post6565190

WOW! Seriously? Gorgeous looking.

 

[sablesurfer]

View attachment 248474

Started this on October 31st. Then all the fruit dropped to the bottom so I racked it off into this yesterday. Hasn't cleared any, will it end up clearing?

If I have read everything correctly, most of the comments are saying about 3 months to clear. You are on two months and change, so might need to continue to wait and quit moving the bottle around to get to your counter. The original recipe says

More stirring or shaking -- Your not listening, don't touch

 

[Briatta]

I've made two one gallon batches so far and both have started clearing at almost two months to the day, but neither had dropped the fruit by three months. I got impatient for the fruit, though I realize it's not necessary, and I rack it out from between the fruit and yeast, then let that settle and then bottle. Again, not necessary, just what I've done.

 

[rlmiller10]

I've made two one gallon batches so far and both have started clearing at almost two months to the day, but neither had dropped the fruit by three months. I got impatient for the fruit, though I realize it's not necessary, and I rack it out from between the fruit and yeast, then let that settle and then bottle. Again, not necessary, just what I've done.

if the fruit is not dropping after the mead has cleared, try putting it in the fridge for a couple of days. That has dropped the fruit for me.

 

[JINKS]

WOW! Seriously? Gorgeous looking.

Looks good but tastes bitter, needs some aging to mellow out the bitter pith.

 

[sablesurfer]

Not sure if this will be found so far back in the thread, but here is an update on mead where the honey settles out to bottom of fermentor. The really old honey I used in one batch (>17yrs old) really didn't want to mix well. I was worried about it, and three days after fermentation started all signs of active fermentation stopped.

Since this wasn't the only single gallon I made that day, I left it alone. No activity for about three days. Then just this Sat there were more bubbles again. At the same rate of about 10 seconds apart.

So, even it if does stratify or settle out, it appears it will kick back up again.

 

[JDWebb]

From what I understand, yeasties are hunter/gatherers. They will find the sugar, even it its at the bottom.

 

[jgny]

Mine is 2 1/2 months old so far, beautiful and clear. BUT,,, I am not liking the strong orange rind smell and the taste is strange, like no alcohol, just watered down orange rind water.
What can I do to correct it and tone down the rind flavor and smell? Can I doctor it up, like add something fruity to overcome the orange?

 

[RichBrewer]

OK. I had to try it!

Sorry but I modified the recipe a bit. Both my SWMBO and I do not like orange peal or clove. So I pealed the orange and nixed the clove. Other than that I followed the instructions completely.

 

[rlmiller10]

Mine is 2 1/2 months old so far, beautiful and clear. BUT,,, I am not liking the strong orange rind smell and the taste is strange, like no alcohol, just watered down orange rind water.
What can I do to correct it and tone down the rind flavor and smell? Can I doctor it up, like add something fruity to overcome the orange?

rack it off the fruit and lees and either bulk age for 6 months or so or bottle and let age.

You could also hit it with Potassium sorbate and Potassium meta sulfite and then back sweeten with some honey. The sweetness will help counteract the bitter of the oranges.

 

[jgny]

rack it off the fruit and lees and either bulk age for 6 months or so or bottle and let age.

You could also hit it with Potassium sorbate and Potassium meta sulfite and then back sweeten with some honey. The sweetness will help counteract the bitter of the oranges.

Thanks! I did rack it off the oranges as soon as it was done fermenting. But wow the orange rind is still way too powerful!! Yuck. I guess you gotta love oranges a lot to enjoy this mead. I feel like I've wasted time on this one. It sounded good in theory.
So any ideas on how to overcome the flavor, such as fruit of any kind? Like cranberries or something?