International Pale Lager Japanese Rice Lager

[ba-brewer]

As far as flavor is concerned, I honestly don't get much flavor out of Japanese adjunct lagers. I'm always a bit perplexed when people want to clone them. I guess it's just a challenge that people want to attempt?

I buy very little commercial beer, if I want a particular style I will brew it. My interest in rice lagers though is/was more to see if rice would help with the chill haze I seem to be plagued with for the last couple of years. I know I can fine the beer but I prefer a more natural approach.

 

[dirty_martini]

I've been in Japan for 20+ years. I'd say go with the Saaz, definitely not the Sorachi Ace.

As far as flavor is concerned, I honestly don't get much flavor out of Japanese adjunct lagers. I'm always a bit perplexed when people want to clone them. I guess it's just a challenge that people want to attempt?

Japanese adjunct lagers are clean and dry. It's not so much about the rice. It's about the process.

for me as a homebrewer, it’s taking something as simple as an adjunct lager, and giving it more character. That’s always been the craft mantra right? I’ve never been interested in cloning a specific beer that I will never brew as well as the commercial ones

given the very basic base of base malt and rice (which I much prefer to the American/Mexican corn adjunct addition), you can still make it more interesting. You can make it more bitter like a Pilsner, add a fruitier flare using New Zealand hops or modern new world hops, play with the malt bill to add some malt complexity/or make it even lighter, whatever tickles your fancy. No reason to think you have to make a Sapporo/Kirin/asahi clone exactly to style. But you can use that guideline to build off of where it’s still recognizable.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

 

[Twinkeelfool]

This one has 20% flaked rice from an Indian grocery, and 3% chit malt, which has a very positive effect on the foam and retention. 10 days bottled and while I’ll leave the bulk of them a few more weeks, tonight I’ll have a few more haha

 

[ebbelwoi]

I like rice lagers in summer ( australia ), and I’m after clean, light bodied and dry. Do you dry hop with Saaz?

I use 50/50 Saaz and Hersbrucker.

 

[z-bob]

This one has 20% flaked rice from an Indian grocery, and 3% chit malt, which has a very positive effect on the foam and retention. 10 days bottled and while I’ll leave the bulk of them a few more weeks, tonight I’ll have a few more haha

I think I've heard of chit malt before but not sure. I use rye malt to do the same thing but don't know if a beer this light would stand up to a few percent rye without changing the taste. Anybody have an opinion about adding just a little rye to an adjunct lager or (high-attenuated ale mimicking a lager)?

I also need to hit the Indian/Pakistani grocer and see what kinds of grains they have.

 

[DaveCS]

Reviving this thread...

Going to attempt this on Tuesday (likely) using "Forbidden" rice (aka Black Rice) to see if there's any colour that I can get out of it. I'm hopeful but we'll see...
Keeping the rice at about 30% of the grist whilst BestMalz Heidelberg makes up almost all of the rest with a smidge of Carafoam. Sticking with 34/70 via WLP830 / Escarpment Labs Isar Lager and fermenting under pressure.

 

[Sleepy_D]

Reviving this thread...

Going to attempt this on Tuesday (likely) using "Forbidden" rice (aka Black Rice) to see if there's any colour that I can get out of it. I'm hopeful but we'll see...
Keeping the rice at about 30% of the grist whilst BestMalz Heidelberg makes up almost all of the rest with a smidge of Carafoam. Sticking with 34/70 via WLP830 / Escarpment Labs Isar Lager and fermenting under pressure.

I did one with 3 lbs jasmine rice, 3 lbs barke Pilsner, 3 lbs 2-row. Sorachi ace hops and 34/70. Pretty good beer

 

[DaveCS]

Ya... I have considered adding some Ella at flameout as well but... hmm.. not sure what it'll do with Sorachi Ace. That said, I went with the Heidelberg because I've liked what I get from it in other pilsners (in terms of colour) if there's zero colour imparted from the black rice.

 

[Sleepy_D]

Ya... I have considered adding some Ella at flameout as well but... hmm.. not sure what it'll do with Sorachi Ace. That said, I went with the Heidelberg because I've liked what I get from it in other pilsners (in terms of colour) if there's zero colour imparted from the black rice.

I’ve heard the black rice will give you a purplish color but not sure if it lasts

 

[Andre3000]

Sticking with 34/70 via WLP830 / Escarpment Labs Isar Lager and fermenting under pressure.

Is Isar 34/70? I don't think it is... Unless you know something I don't?

 

[DaveCS]

Is Isar 34/70? I don't think it is... Unless you know something I don't?

To the best of my knowledge based on discussions I've had with Escarpment, it's "awfully close"

Isar Lager is akin to WLP830 which is akin to Wyeast 2124 which is akin to Imperial's L13 which is akin to Omega's OYL-106 (and obviously Fermentis 34/70).

For a long time our club had been asking for identification of the strains produced by Escarpment and how they compare to other yeast producers (specifically Wyeast, White Labs and Imperial) because we'd like to support our local yeast producer (fresher yeast after all) and we finally received confirmation sometime last year (if memory serves correctly) from Escarpment.

And while Escarpment (or any Yeast producer) would never say the strains are identical - they do say they're comparable or "similar"

 

[ba-brewer]

My rice lager, 5.4% with a 1009 finish gravity for a medium light body. I used S-23 which always comes out a little fruity for me but I dont mind it. A light herbal flavor from saphir for the late hops. The flavor and aroma from domestic 2row is not bad either.

 

[monkeymath]

Just out of curiosity: are these "Japanese Rice Lagers" available in the US imported from Japan?
This thread piqued my interest, but all Japanese beers I could find (in Germany) were brewed in the EU under license, and none of them contained any rice. (Kirin Ichiban, brewed at Weihenstephan, is a really good beer, though).

 

[TheDogsRump]

It's a mix. I'm in Canada and there is Sapporo brewed in Quebec but you can also find Sapporo imported from Japan (usually big cans). Asahi bottles used to come from Thailand but now (I assume because of covid) they come from Italy and are no longer a budget beer because of it, being nearly 5 dollars more. You can usually find large 500ml cans from Japan though. Asahi Black will always be from Japan with the distinct heavy bottles.

I truly don't care for the Canada and Italy licensed brews. No matter how much you try to duplicate it, it's not the same barely or water. In both sake and beer, there is something special about Japan water imo. You always taste the difference.

 

[TheDogsRump]

Just out of curiosity: are these "Japanese Rice Lagers" available in the US imported from Japan?
This thread piqued my interest, but all Japanese beers I could find (in Germany) were brewed in the EU under license, and none of them contained any rice. (Kirin Ichiban, brewed at Weihenstephan, is a really good beer, though).

Kirin is quite malty imo and not really part of the "super dry" club. It's 100% barely to my knowledge. Sapporo also doesn't use rice I believe, few Japanese brewers do in fact. We in the west seem to add rice thinking it makes it "Japanese" lol. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it's actually not that common in Japanese beer.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Sapporo also doesn't use rice I believe, few Japanese brewers do in fact. We in the west seem to add rice thinking it makes it "Japanese" lol. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it's actually not that common in Japanese beer.

This is not correct.

Asahi Super Dry and Sapporo Black Label, which are the flagship beers of their respective breweries, as well as Kirin Lager, are adjunct lagers containing rice and corn. Kirin Ichiban Shibori is an all-malt beer.

 

[therealbabadook]

It's a mix. I'm in Canada and there is Sapporo brewed in Quebec but you can also find Sapporo imported from Japan (usually big cans). Asahi bottles used to come from Thailand but now (I assume because of covid) they come from Italy and are no longer a budget beer because of it, being nearly 5 dollars more. You can usually find large 500ml cans from Japan though. Asahi Black will always be from Japan with the distinct heavy bottles.

I truly don't care for the Canada and Italy licensed brews. No matter how much you try to duplicate it, it's not the same barely or water. In both sake and beer, there is something special about Japan water imo. You always taste the difference.

I drank Sapporo while in Hokkaido and have had it here in Nova Scotia (brewed in Guelph Ontario BTW). It's a reasonable facsimile to the real deal - in both draught and canned forms. My favourite recall of Sapporo was in the 2L monster can I got out of a vending machine at a construction site around 2 AM somewhere between Asahikawa and Furano LOL. Icy cold on a hot humid early August morning! The Stella Artois brewed in Edmonton is off a bit but I find the London Ontario brewed Corona not too bad.

 

[bwible]

We in the west seem to add rice thinking it makes it "Japanese" lol.

Budweiser is made with rice

 

[therealbabadook]

Budweiser is made with rice

Yup LOL!

 

[monkeymath]

Budweiser is made with rice

No, it isn't.


Oh WAIT, you mean the American fake Budweiser! Yeah, whatever.

 

[therealbabadook]

Yup LOL!

As is Heineken if I recall...

No, it isn't.


Oh WAIT, you mean the American fake Budweiser! Yeah, whatever.

Budvar..Czechvar...the real deal if you're not using rice...

 

[ebbelwoi]

As is Heineken if I recall...

Water, malted barley, hop extract.