Issue w/ "thin" taste and possible stalled Ferm!

[mildeng]

Hi all, recently brewed a Belgian wit off of beer smith on an all grain BIAB system Recipe: Wit



Had fermented at 68deg for 7 days and then gradually ramped up to 73 over the following 7 days. OG checked in at 1.042. After primary fermentation, I moved the bucket to my basement which is around 70deg stable and let it sit for another week. Just went to take a check - no infection and smells nice but the flavour tastes what I would describe as very THIN, and SP is coming in at 1.02 in two separate checks (hydrometer is fine and tested water at 1.00 pre brewing). I used one package of WPL400 for a 5G beach.

Understandably this is impossible to diagnose in isolation. I've noticed a trend of "thin" tasting beers in my last few batches - by thin I mean no off-flavours, but only a very, very faint Hoegaarden taste; not that standout coriander/yeast/orange characterization. This was my first go at fermenting with a temp-controlled fridge and using gypsum/CaCl to adjust my local water so had higher hopes, but this appears to be my first stalled fermentation. Based on the diagnosis, is there anything I can do at this point to improve the batch? I could either keg it on the weekend and hope that will breathe some life into the brew, leave to ferment for another week, or do something else to possibly re-start fermentation? Appreciate any advice, slightly disheartened with the outcome thus far!

 

[Stormcrow]

Hi all, recently brewed a Belgian wit off of beer smith on an all grain BIAB system Recipe: Wit



Had fermented at 68deg for 7 days and then gradually ramped up to 73 over the following 7 days. OG checked in at 1.042. After primary fermentation, I moved the bucket to my basement which is around 70deg stable and let it sit for another week. Just went to take a check - no infection and smells nice but the flavour tastes what I would describe as very THIN, and SP is coming in at 1.02 in two separate checks (hydrometer is fine and tested water at 1.00 pre brewing). I used one package of WPL400 for a 5G beach.

Understandably this is impossible to diagnose in isolation. I've noticed a trend of "thin" tasting beers in my last few batches - by thin I mean no off-flavours, but only a very, very faint Hoegaarden taste; not that standout coriander/yeast/orange characterization. This was my first go at fermenting with a temp-controlled fridge and using gypsum/CaCl to adjust my local water so had higher hopes, but this appears to be my first stalled fermentation. Based on the diagnosis, is there anything I can do at this point to improve the batch? I could either keg it on the weekend and hope that will breathe some life into the brew, leave to ferment for another week, or do something else to possibly re-start fermentation? Appreciate any advice, slightly disheartened with the outcome thus far!

I haven't had one stuck yet, but I think I've read where other guys on here will pitch a packet of neutral dry yeast like us05 to try to get a fermentation going again.

 

[VikeMan]

and SP is coming in at 1.02 in two separate checks (hydrometer is fine and tested water at 1.00 pre brewing).

Any chance your mash temp was significantly higher than planned? Have you calibrated your thermometer lately?

This was my first go at fermenting with a temp-controlled fridge and using gypsum/CaCl to adjust my local water so had higher hopes,

Do you know what's in your base (local) water?

After primary fermentation, I moved the bucket to my basement which is around 70deg stable and let it sit for another week.

How sure are you of that temperature. Did you measure it?

I could either keg it on the weekend and hope that will breathe some life into the brew, leave to ferment for another week, or do something else to possibly re-start fermentation?

I don't think kegging it is somehow going to fix the issue.

How much time passed between the two separate SG checks?

 

[mildeng]

Any chance your mash temp was significantly higher than planned? Have you calibrated your thermometer lately?



Do you know what's in your base (local) water?



How sure are you of that temperature. Did you measure it?



I don't think kegging it is somehow going to fix the issue.

How much time passed between the two separate SG checks?

Hi there,
- Therm instrument is a thermal probe, have not had any issues registering correct temps for meat in the past two months. My mash may have over shot by ~4-5 degrees but that's not been an issue in the past
- Have a local water chemistry report and have made the adjustments via Bru'n Water. Also checked with my local homebrew chapter and a few professionals made recommendations for additions that match my online research
- Yes, temp has been measured. 4 days between the SG checks with no movement from ~1.02
- I am wondering if the greater issue may be that a finer crush is required. I usually pick up my grain from local HB store but do not request anything extra fine.

 

[Dave Sarber]

Crush could be the issue, or mash could be the issue, or both. You might be able to save it by using a saison yeast with high attenuation, like BE256. For your next batch, try a finer crush, and a step mash for better fermentability.

 

[kh54s10]

4-5 degrees high in the mash is huge if you are already on the high side. This could be the reason for the high FG. You can gently swirl up the yeast cake and hope it restarts. You could pitch some more yeast. You should have made a starter when using liquid yeast. A course crush will have more effect on the OG than the FG.

Your FG is high and could give you the thin feel, but I don't judge the flavor of a beer until it is fully finished and carbonated. I have had some that were meh, before conditioning that turned out to be very good.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Few thoughts:

You transferred to a secondary. Unless you are doing weird additions, there is no need for that. Did you check your gravity before transferring and assure that fermentation was complete? You could have lost a good amount of happy yeast if you left it behind during that transfer.

I have never heard crush being an issue for a high FG, only a low OG. Just less sugars, not less fermentable.

For the thin taste, I know what you mean, I had that happen with my first attempts at lower ABV brews. You have a 4.5% beer (or less) with only pale and wheat malt. Not much going on, so your yeast handling and water chemistry needs to be on point to really make it shine. Perhaps you didn't nail your water adjustments.

Take a small sample and stick it in the fridge. Let it get cool, then taste it. Light blonde ales sometimes need that coolness to give you a real take on how it will be in the end, as that "thin" flaw can actually turn to "refreshing".

 

[VikeMan]

My mash may have over shot by ~4-5 degrees but that's not been an issue in the past

So, what was the actual mash temp?

- I am wondering if the greater issue may be that a finer crush is required. I usually pick up my grain from local HB store but do not request anything extra fine.

As other mentioned, that would affect mash efficiency, but not fermentability.

 

[mildeng]

Few thoughts:

You transferred to a secondary. Unless you are doing weird additions, there is no need for that. Did you check your gravity before transferring and assure that fermentation was complete? You could have lost a good amount of happy yeast if you left it behind during that transfer.

I have never heard crush being an issue for a high FG, only a low OG. Just less sugars, not less fermentable.

For the thin taste, I know what you mean, I had that happen with my first attempts at lower ABV brews. You have a 4.5% beer (or less) with only pale and wheat malt. Not much going on, so your yeast handling and water chemistry needs to be on point to really make it shine. Perhaps you didn't nail your water adjustments.

Take a small sample and stick it in the fridge. Let it get cool, then taste it. Light blonde ales sometimes need that coolness to give you a real take on how it will be in the end, as that "thin" flaw can actually turn to "refreshing".

Hello - there is no secondary. When I referenced "primary fermentation" I was referring to peak activity up to 7 days after pitching. All I did was gently move my fermenting bucket from the kegerator fridge to my basement. Definitely possible on the water adjustments. I've had a few with this "thinner" body so trying to dial in on what the issue might be. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[mildeng]

So, what was the actual mash temp?



As other mentioned, that would affect mash efficiency, but not fermentability.

Target was 154, actually peaked at 157-158 before falling back down again. Could you please differentiate between the two? I'm <10 batches deep so still learning very much with each (somewhat failed) process

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Hello - there is no secondary.

Ah I misread your message when talking about moving it.


For mash temp, 157-158 is pretty damned high. Folks tend to say not to exceed 155F, and IMHO even that is too high. So you may have ended up with a chunk of more unfermentable sugars, but with your relatively low OG, it still seems like a fairly high FG.

 

[VikeMan]

Target was 154, actually peaked at 157-158 before falling back down again.

158F is pretty high and will reduce fermentability fairly significantly. I wouldn't expect it to cause as high an FG (i.e. low apparent attenuation) as what you're seeing, but it's a piece of the puzzle.

Could you please differentiate between the two? I'm <10 batches deep so still learning very much with each (somewhat failed) process

Do you mean the difference between Mash Efficiency and Fermentability?

Mash efficiency is a measure of how much of the total potential sugars/dextrins in the mash actually make it into the kettle, expressed as a percentage. The higher your mash efficiency, the higher your OG. But whatever that mash efficiency/OG is, it tells you nothing about how fermentable the wort is.

Fermentability, regardless of mash efficiency/OG, addresses what proportion of the sugars/dextrins in your wort will be turned into alcohol. Apparent Attenuation is a measure (after the fact) of the wort's fermentability (and also the yeast strain's ability to eat certain sugars/dextrins).

Further reading...

http://sonsofalchemy.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Mash_Efficiency_and_Brewhouse_Efficiency.pdfhttp://sonsofalchemy.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Attenuation-Factors.pdf

 

[Tall_Yotie]

[cut] Attenuation is a measure (after the fact) or the wort's fermentability....

Example:
OG: 1.045
FG: 1.020

(45-20)/45 = 56% attenuation, WLP400 claims 74%-78% attenuation. Would expect to get to 1.012 at 76% attenuation.

 

[dwightr8]

Have you checked your thermometer? The easiest thing to do is stick it in some boiling water and see what it reads (assuming you're at or near sea level). If it's reading even a few degrees low it would mean your mash temp could have been in the 160s and that would definitely be a problem.