thunderaxe
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To me this is further evidence that the spice is not yeast derived.
i've been wondering if that spiciness or pepper flavour isn't just hop burn
To me this is further evidence that the spice is not yeast derived.
I grabbed a pack of their Juice yeast from my local brew shop for my latest NE IPA, which the staff guy told me was basically 1318. Will be carbing shortly and can share results.Thinking about giving Imperial yeast a try for my next batch. Looks like there are quite a few options that sound like they would work well for this style. Does anyone have experience with these? There’s one called dry hop which I guess is a blend of Conan and sach trois. Might give that a go.
Funny you mention EQ. I just talked to the head brewer a couple weeks ago and he mentioned that they use all RO water and build a chloride heavy profile.Has anyone tried any equilibrium beers yet? They must be doing something similar to TH. I drank a bunch of fluctuation and it was very similar hmm
Never tried it, but i am very interested in doing so now haha. What is similar about them to TH? Hop character? Yeast character? Mouthfeel?Has anyone tried any equilibrium beers yet? They must be doing something similar to TH. I drank a bunch of fluctuation and it was very similar hmm
First, not all their ipas are similar like TH. Maybe slightly the yeast character but also that fresh hoppy wort flavor and maltiness. Not sure if they naturally carb or not.Never tried it, but i am very interested in doing so now haha. What is similar about them to TH? Hop character? Yeast character? Mouthfeel?
Yeah, I didn't ask him about the logistics of how many brite tanks they have, when it's moved from primary etc... They don't have a taproom to keep stocked with 8-12 different beers though, so I guess that allows them to do a lot more of the hoppy can releases.They do release beers every week. How can the store that much beer for a month before releasing? I believe you, just saying. They have a small operation going on there.
Tree House seems to have more of the bready English malt base (especially the newer Charlton beers) and the hop character is more focused than the Equilibrium stuff. I describe EQ as "messy, wild and beautiful". They have a snappy citric flavor to go along with over ripe tropical fruit basket in most of their hoppy stuff. Their yeast character is way more expressive as well. Almost what I remember Heady Topper being like in the early days.First, not all their ipas are similar like TH. Maybe slightly the yeast character but also that fresh hoppy wort flavor and maltiness. Not sure if they naturally carb or not.
I just read a big write up on polyphenols by Scott Janish, “making a cleanish NEIPA” published last summer.Another interesting tidbit is that they lager all their hoppy beers for a whole month after dry hopping and carbonation before canning. He says this gives the polyphenols a chance to drop out after the massive amount of plant material is added. I can confirm that their IPA's are incredibly smooth.
Cool. I've been thinking about experimenting with switching up the base strain as well. I have made an NEIPA with 1968 before. Aroma was great, huge tropical fruit character. Hop flavor was a little muted though. But I want to experiment with using rehopped gyle to prime and naturally keg carb, so I'm thinking I'll revisit the 1968. The thought being that a lot of the hop flavors that get muted by the yeast during primary will get added back with the rehopped gyle. I think eventually I want to work towards blending that with a small WB-06 batch, but i might separate out the variables first.Plan this weekend is to sub the S-04 with.... Conan (Yeast Bay Vermont). Hopefully the conventional wisdom of Fermentis yeast counts having 20 billion/gram is somewhat on point. Also going to try moving the beer to a keg on day 5, throw in a just a bit of sugar and the last dry hop for a couple of days, and then move to the fridge for force carb and condition.
(the thinking here is that at some point lallemand's dry conan is going to be available for homebrewers and wouldn't that be a fun option.)
Isn’t lagering just storing cold? If so, aren’t we all lagering our IPAs when storing in the fridge before serving?I just read a big write up on polyphenols by Scott Janish, “making a cleanish NEIPA” published last summer.
Also, on the latest Beersmith podcast mike, The Mad Fermentationist likes to lager his NEIPAs for a week before serving.
Yes, but I do know if he was lagering at 50 or 38f. I think his point was to let it cold condition a week before tapping it. Kinda like what some if not most are saying that the beers change and come into their own after a week or two. If you have been following this thread and the NEIPA thread, there wasn’t really any new information that hasn’t been discussed.Isn’t lagering just storing cold? If so, aren’t we all lagering our IPAs when storing in the fridge before serving?
Cool. I've been thinking about experimenting with switching up the base strain as well. I have made an NEIPA with 1968 before. Aroma was great, huge tropical fruit character. Hop flavor was a little muted though. But I want to experiment with using rehopped gyle to prime and naturally keg carb, so I'm thinking I'll revisit the 1968. The thought being that a lot of the hop flavors that get muted by the yeast during primary will get added back with the rehopped gyle. I think eventually I want to work towards blending that with a small WB-06 batch, but i might separate out the variables first.
On a somewhat related note, I'm thinking about reducing or dropping the T-58 for the time being. I'm pretty sure it's not the source of that spice. Also, the more I taste it, the less I like that orange character that I assume is from that yeast.
What was missing from the ones that came up short? Or did they have flavors/aromas you didn't want?The best NE styled IPA I've made to date was with WY1968. It was unreal. I've now tried twice since to reproduce it and both attempts have come up short. One came up particularly short...frustrating to say the least. I think it has to do with my ferm schedule as 1968 tends to work faster than most and then drops before I ramp up. Not 100% sure though. I'm going to try it again soon, but I'm taking a bit of a break from brewing hoppy beers. Next up for me is a dark mild.
What was missing from the ones that came up short? Or did they have flavors/aromas you didn't want?
Here is a pic of my best hoppy beer to date, fermented with WY1968, Simcoe in boil and flameout with Simcoe, Citra and Nelson in Dry hop.... OG 1.055, FG 1.015
That beer looks and sounds awesome. I think you just solidified my decision to revisit 1968 for the style!Good question. I am not 100% sure. I will start by saying that I was gong more for a light on the tongue and balanced pale ale strength, Hill Farmstead style hoppy beer more than I was going for the intensity of a sweeter, Treehouse style hoppy beer. The really bad beer I made picked up diacetyl from dry hopping which ruined it as I am pretty sensitive to that off flavor. IME, WY1968 works on a different schedule than say 1318. I think it's more important with this yeast that you make sure to increase the ferm temp after active fermentation to be sure it doesn't floc out prematurely. 1968 also flocs faster than 1318 so this can happen before you have a chance to keep it on course. The other thing with WY1968 is that it really doesn't attenuate well, which is a good thing as long as you keep it in mind when developing the recipe and mashing schedule. Mashing at 156F for a pale ale is fine, but next time I am going to try draining the MT to the kettle right after conversion, skipping the mashout and sparging with ~150F water. I found that mashing higher (155F-158F) in combination with the lower attenuation of WY1968, any long chain sugars produced while the grain bed is between 159-165F (during the rise from mash temp to mashout temp and also loss of temp during sparging) are cloying and detract from the balance of the beer. I need to get better mash temp control! Additionally, I have a hunch that the diacetyl produced during dry hoping is at least in part a result of the yeast struggling with the longer chain sugars instead of converting all of the diacetyl precursor. I realize a d-test would help identify the problem, but I didn't notice any diacetyl in the beer sample prior to dry hopping and skipped the d-test.
I love the esters from this yeast and they balance well with hops as long as they're kept in check and balanced. The mouthfeel and foam are also really, really great. I actually prefer it to 1318, at least for pale ales, but it doesn't have as wide a sweet spot as 1318 and can taste out of place if the beer is unbalanced.
Here is a pic of my best hoppy beer to date, fermented with WY1968, Simcoe in boil and flameout with Simcoe, Citra and Nelson in Dry hop.... OG 1.055, FG 1.015
was this with one pack of 1318? Also, can you compare to a solo—1318 batch?My last three gallon batch was 1318 with .7g T-58 and .2 WB-06. And a lot of hops. It was my most aromatic and drinkable beer to date by far. Going to try S-04 for the next three batches.
was this with one pack of 1318? Also, can you compare to a solo—1318 batch?
I've also started to dry hops without a bag, just throwing them in and relying on cold crashing to clear things up.
I did not cold crash my latest attempt, which involved 4 ounces loose dry hop in the carboy before a closed transfer to a serving keg with shortened dip tube and screen (with a 2nd dry hop). Was a real PITA, led to clogged poppets, had to push the beer in through the gas-in post, which made me cringe.I feel like this is key for these beers to get that hop saturation. The one attempt that I dry hopped in bags just wasn't the same. My standard process is to dry hop loose, but I wanted to experiment with skipping the cold crash on that one. The takeaway for me was that it is much better to cold crash and dry hop loose than to bag and not crash.
My most recent attempt was dry hopped loose in the keg (stainless diptube filter) as well as in the fermenter. I was VERY happy with the hop saturation on that one.
Yeah, I've had similar experiences with dry hopping loose and not crashing. It does transfer a lot of hop material over. As far as transferring in through the gas side, I have done that but not without some modifications to the setup. I actually assembled the keg with two long dip tubes. Not sure if all kegs are receptive to that, but it worked well for me. The one on the liquid side had the filter on it, and it was as it would be for the life of the keg (this was the serving keg). I transferred in through the gas side long dip tube and, just before purging the headspace after the transfer, I quickly swapped out the gas side dip tube for the standard short one. Worked great. But I had cold crashed the primary on that one anyway.I did not cold crash my latest attempt, which involved 4 ounces loose dry hop in the carboy before a closed transfer to a serving keg with shortened dip tube and screen (with a 2nd dry hop). Was a real PITA, led to clogged poppets, had to push the beer in through the gas-in post, which made me cringe.
Definitely cold crashing next time.
I am a big fan of cold crashing, especially on beers that are dry hopped loose.maybe a bit off-topic but this brings up a question i've been meaning to ask of people with experience brewing NEIPAs. how do you feel about:
1) using whirlfloc or other protein-coagulation aids in the boil
2) cold crashing (the consensus seems to be in favour)
3) using finings e.g. gelatin or biofine.
i've been using whirlfloc habitually in every beer i've brewed so far because the general consensus seems to be that it removes the proteins you don't want, but i'm not convinced that's necessarily true for NEIPAs;
and cold crashing has not been enough to keep the finished product from having way too much yeast in it (i bottle condition) so i've used biofine in my last couple of beers and it has worked great at keeping the yeast bite out but it also seems to clear away all the protein/hop haze in addition to the yeast, negating the wheat and oats i put in there.
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