That would work just fine, but the price is 3 - 4 times too high.
Is the crush my problem w efficiency? (PICS)
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That would work just fine, but the price is 3 - 4 times too high.
jekeane
Well-Known Member
I would like to assume that a lhbs is setting their mill to accommodate the most systems without getting stuck sparges, and that is why their crush is not the greatest for people who know their systems.
As for the lhbs trying to scratch out some more cash on people who are adjusting for the bad crush on purpose. It certainly could be their motivation but the damage to their business vs the dollar or two they gain seems like a far to silly decision.
I get 65% from my lhbs. I batch sparge and have used two different tuns. At this point I am certain it is the crush but I haven't bothered asking him to double crush because I usually have my young sons with me and don't have the time. My trade off is my boys move everything around in the store...
Another lhbs opened up about the same distance from my house and a major topic of conversation at last months homebrew club was how much better the mill is. I will likely get my next grain bill from them and see for myself.
As for the lhbs trying to scratch out some more cash on people who are adjusting for the bad crush on purpose. It certainly could be their motivation but the damage to their business vs the dollar or two they gain seems like a far to silly decision.
I get 65% from my lhbs. I batch sparge and have used two different tuns. At this point I am certain it is the crush but I haven't bothered asking him to double crush because I usually have my young sons with me and don't have the time. My trade off is my boys move everything around in the store...
Another lhbs opened up about the same distance from my house and a major topic of conversation at last months homebrew club was how much better the mill is. I will likely get my next grain bill from them and see for myself.
this is what I got from my LHBS today after asking for double mill. I suspect they are under milling to ultimately make more money from grain and that wouldn't surprise me as they are always overcharging for other stuff.
Combined this with my new sparge procedure (ended up taking about 2 hours from mash out to pre-boil) I hit 85% today when I usually hit 65%. Very happy!
Glad to hear you got a result. What a huge difference!
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
Apparently so. I converted that to US dollars and came up with about $84 US. I paid about $25 US for a similar mill delivered to my door.
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So I was in my LHBS this afternoon and asked about their mill. They have a Monster Mill MM3, and the owner was very up front that they gap theirs on the coarse side. He said they are happy to mill it any way I request, but they leave it a little coarse by default. This is to accommodate the majority of brewers out there, without having to know specifics for each customers system, and worry about stuck sparges.
They also sell MM2's for the same price Monster Brewing does. When I do get my own mill, I will be supporting my LHBS.
They also sell MM2's for the same price Monster Brewing does. When I do get my own mill, I will be supporting my LHBS.
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to assume my LHBS was ripping people off. But they are definitely overpriced because they have little competition
No worries. LHBS like any business come in all varieties. The great and the good, the poor and the needy. Ive found a great one here and love spending time there. Really welcoming as opposed to my first visit to a competitor's store when I was a very green Noob.
Best of luck to the Kiwis in the final tomorrow. Looking forward to them hopefully giving the Aussies one in the eye.
UPDATE
My last two brews I tried some different techniques to try and raise my efficiency. I'm posting this update for anyone else who may happen by this thread.
On the first of the last two brews I still got my standard LHBS crush (coarse, as previously posted). However I stirred the mash three times, once at dough in, once at 20 min, and once at 40 min (60 min mash). Previously I only stirred once really well at dough in and then left it alone so I could keep the heat in my cooler MLT by not removing the lid. I normally loose maybe 1/2 - 1*F in an hour this way. Stirring obviously caused some heat loss, so I added a quart or two of hot water from my HLT each time to keep the temps up. I also lautered (batch sparge) very, very slowly, like a gallon each 15 minutes. I used to run it off fairly quickly, but slow enough not to get stuck. I also split the sparge water in two, and did two batch sparges, stirring each one very well then letting it settle for 5-10 minutes. I previously only did one batch sparge. This method achieved a mash efficiency of 80.7% per Beersmith.
On my second brew (boiling away now), I had my LHBS run it through the mill twice, which was still set at their normal coarse crush. During the mash I stirred three times again, at dough in, after 30 min, and after 60 min (75 min mash). I also added a bit of hot water each time to keep temps up. I also lautered very slowly again, and did two batch sparges. Today's mash efficiency is 80.8% according to BS.
This tells me that it is likely not necessarily the crush, but my process in mashing and collecting the wort. I built my sculpture to accommodate fly sparging, but I have never done it. I may look into it though if I am going to continue running off so slowly. Both of these recipes are going to yield a higher ABV beer because I had adjusted my BS to lower efficiencies. I guess that's not a bad thing.
Hope this helps anyone that may be in the same situation.
My last two brews I tried some different techniques to try and raise my efficiency. I'm posting this update for anyone else who may happen by this thread.
On the first of the last two brews I still got my standard LHBS crush (coarse, as previously posted). However I stirred the mash three times, once at dough in, once at 20 min, and once at 40 min (60 min mash). Previously I only stirred once really well at dough in and then left it alone so I could keep the heat in my cooler MLT by not removing the lid. I normally loose maybe 1/2 - 1*F in an hour this way. Stirring obviously caused some heat loss, so I added a quart or two of hot water from my HLT each time to keep the temps up. I also lautered (batch sparge) very, very slowly, like a gallon each 15 minutes. I used to run it off fairly quickly, but slow enough not to get stuck. I also split the sparge water in two, and did two batch sparges, stirring each one very well then letting it settle for 5-10 minutes. I previously only did one batch sparge. This method achieved a mash efficiency of 80.7% per Beersmith.
On my second brew (boiling away now), I had my LHBS run it through the mill twice, which was still set at their normal coarse crush. During the mash I stirred three times again, at dough in, after 30 min, and after 60 min (75 min mash). I also added a bit of hot water each time to keep temps up. I also lautered very slowly again, and did two batch sparges. Today's mash efficiency is 80.8% according to BS.
This tells me that it is likely not necessarily the crush, but my process in mashing and collecting the wort. I built my sculpture to accommodate fly sparging, but I have never done it. I may look into it though if I am going to continue running off so slowly. Both of these recipes are going to yield a higher ABV beer because I had adjusted my BS to lower efficiencies. I guess that's not a bad thing.
Hope this helps anyone that may be in the same situation.
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
this is crucial IMO. I stir at dough-in, then every 20 mins and one final before mash out.
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Maybe run the same recipe and procedure except speed up the run off to 1 gallon in 5 minutes? I don't know if it helps to run it off super slow or not, would be interesting to find out. Getting 80% is pretty good and I'd be happy with that.
I've already thought the same thing. On Sunday I will be brewing a recipe that I have brewed twice before. Both of those times I got mash efficiency in the low 60's. I'm going use my new procedure, but I'll run it off much quicker, and see if it makes any difference. I'll let you know how it goes.
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
it does, as it stops the creation of channels which can prevent the sugars from being drained. I got the best efficiency of my brewing life using a slow sparge (see my post earlier in the thread) and I'll always be doing the same in the future.
I believe the OP is batch sparging, in which case channeling is not an issue. The wort and grain should be in equilibrium for sugar concentration, both for the original run off and the sparge run off (assuming it was stirred adequately). So channeling or not, the amount of sugar drawn off will be the same. Channeling is definitely a concern when fly sparging.
Brew on
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
I believe the OP is batch sparging, in which case channeling is not an issue. The wort and grain should be in equilibrium for sugar concentration, both for the original run off and the sparge run off (assuming it was stirred adequately). So channeling or not, the amount of sugar drawn off will be the same. Channeling is definitely a concern when fly sparging.
Brew on
well, there we go!
I batch sparge. I stir it well before draining. I does not seem to make any difference in how fast it is drained. I usually vorlauf until clear, then open the valve all the way. Stirring well seems to be key, though.
Ok, so on Sunday I brewed the recipe that I had brewed twice before, getting mash efficiency in the low 60's each time. I had my LHBS run the grain through the mill only once. I stirred my mash much more frequently (as I had started doing, per post#40), but I ran off the wort much quicker. I ran off 2.75 gallons first runnings in about 5 minutes. I split my sparge water as I have been doing lately and got around 3 gallons out each sparge, also in about 5 minutes each. Mash efficiency 82.7% according to Beersmith!
So, running off slowly was not what made my efficiency go up. Simply by stirring my mash much more frequently (add topping up with a bit of hot water to keep temps up each time), and splitting my batch sparge water in two, I have been able to hit 80%+ mash efficiency on my last three batches. w00t!
So, running off slowly was not what made my efficiency go up. Simply by stirring my mash much more frequently (add topping up with a bit of hot water to keep temps up each time), and splitting my batch sparge water in two, I have been able to hit 80%+ mash efficiency on my last three batches. w00t!
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
good job. It's always satisfying to know you are improving your processes and getting small victories such as this
Beerhound419
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Discussions like this are priceless for some that is about to do their first all grain brew. Joining this forum would be my recommendation for anyone attempting to start brewing at home.
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
this is definitely my favorite homebrewing forum. So much knowledge but there is always a recipe available for any style of beer I want to make and they are always on-point
For my birthday my wife got me a mill. Cereal Killer, it's not the one I would have chosen, but it was a total surprise and it was very thoughtful. The CK is actually pretty damn nice for $100. I have done a couple 1 lb. test runs to try it out and adjust the gap size. I settled on .038" for now. Tomorrow will be my first full batch through it. Hopefully with the better techniques I've adopted, I will still be getting 80%+ mash efficiency. Who knows, maybe once I really get the CK dialed in I can hit 90! *keep dreaming*
Holy crap! I just plugged my numbers from yesterdays brew into Beersmith, and it calculated my mash efficiency at 91.5%!!!
I will have to back off my mill gap a bit. .038" might have been a bit too tight as there was a bit of flour in the grind, and some wort left in the MLT after the first runnings. Since I batch sparge, I threw in a half pound of rice hulls with the sparge water and was able to get all the wort out on each of my two sparges.
At any rate I was surprised to see such a high mash efficiency. I had adjusted my Beersmith efficiency after my last three brews came in over 80%, but now coming in at 91.5% I still overshot my OG. It didn't help that I boiled off an extra half gallon either. It was supposed to be 1.054, I hit 1.060. Ooops, out of style (3b).
I will have to back off my mill gap a bit. .038" might have been a bit too tight as there was a bit of flour in the grind, and some wort left in the MLT after the first runnings. Since I batch sparge, I threw in a half pound of rice hulls with the sparge water and was able to get all the wort out on each of my two sparges.
At any rate I was surprised to see such a high mash efficiency. I had adjusted my Beersmith efficiency after my last three brews came in over 80%, but now coming in at 91.5% I still overshot my OG. It didn't help that I boiled off an extra half gallon either. It was supposed to be 1.054, I hit 1.060. Ooops, out of style (3b).
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