have a ris stuck at 1.054 so decided to add in some amylase enzyme to hopefully drop the fg into the 1.040's or high 30's. Pitched it in last night, Carboy temp is low 70's. Never having used it before will I see bubbles by in the airlock or formation of a krausen to know it's atleast working. I plan on taking a reading in one week and then prob a couple days after that to see if the fg has finally stabilized.
Is the amylase enzyme working?????
- Thread starter olotti
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Why do you think amylase is going to help you restart your stuck fermentation?
If the yeast has stopped working all you're going to get by adding enzymes is much sweeter beer and, if you're going to bottle it, more powerful bottle bombs.
If the yeast has stopped working all you're going to get by adding enzymes is much sweeter beer and, if you're going to bottle it, more powerful bottle bombs.
olotti
Well-Known Member
Well it seems to have worked for others who've had stuck fermentations so figured I'd give it a try.
And if the all the sugars are broken down and chewed up by the yeast how does this enzyme produce bottle bombs. Just curious, maybe this was a bad idea after all as I do bottle this stout and because it oak ages for up to 10 months I add half a pack of CBC-1 at bottling.
True, without viable yeast the enzymes won't help. But I wouldn't assume they aren't viable (did I miss something?). If he had mash issues (e.g., too low or too high temperature) it's possible he had incomplete conversion of the large sugars. Enzymes in the fermentor might correct that.
To the OP: The enzyme activity will be slow, so you might not see krausen or significant activity. But in my experience (if it's working) you'll quickly see the the gravity fall. With the additional of enzymes to the fermentor, you should get 85% attenuation. What was your OG?
Make danged sure to give it lots of time to finish. Might take weeks. You could speed that up by raising the temperature to 100F if possible. Don't go higher than that, you'll kill the yeast. I have not tried raising the temperature when adding enzymes - I just waited until I was certain the gravity wasn't changing any longer.
Unless his starting gravity was up around 1.200 there is no way his FG could really be that high. Even if you mashed at 160°F there's no way you could get that many dextrines in a malt wort. He clearly has fermentation issues, possibly but not necessarily related to the high starting gravity, and adding enzymes is only going to make things worse in the sense that he will have more fermentable sugars but no healty yeast to quickly metabolize them.
I would also refrain from raising fermentation temperature to unrealistic values such as 100°F, even if the yeast were to restart instead of dying the result would probably taste not so good.
I would also refrain from raising fermentation temperature to unrealistic values such as 100°F, even if the yeast were to restart instead of dying the result would probably taste not so good.
olotti
Well-Known Member
I mashed at 155 deg and my starting gravity was 1.132 for just over 5 gal into the primary. Pitched a 3 stepped starter of 007 and by day 4 the temp had started to fall back into the high 60's, peak temp was mid 70's for 36hrs, then I raised the temp to 70 deg and held it there for the yeast to clean up and I usually primary it for 1 month before transfer to secondary. So I took my first gravity reading at week 2 where it was 1.054 so I moved the carboy to a warmer area, low 70's, swirled and waited a week for another gravity reading and it hadn't budged, still at 1.054. I've seen people pitch new yeast and it never seems to work so I went right to the amylase in hopes it'll drop the fg to make the beer more palatable and not so sweet.
007 is probably stalled (dead) from the alcohol level then (you're at 10% ABV). Try adding a yeast with the diastaticus gene. I highly recommend WY3711.
If your grain was milled properly, you had a fluid grain bed, you mashed for an hour at 155, then amylase isn't likely to help (won't hurt though).
olotti
Well-Known Member
I made this same beer last year using 007 and it finished at 1.035 with a og of 1.124
So if I add 3711 what can I expect? A secondary fermentation? Will it get any off flavors and how far down since I added this amylase will it possibly drop? I just don't want it to bottom out.
Yeah grain was milled fine, mashed at 155 for 90 min.
Based on my experience, adding the enzymes for several weeks will get your beer to 85% attenuation, which would be about 1.020. But enzymes merely cleave the large unfermentable sugars into smaller sugars - they don't actually do the fermenting - that's the yeast. If you got 85% on this beer, that means you'd have about 15% ABV, which no likely for 007.
If you want some quick answers, fill your hydrometer jar with the beer and add some enzymes to it and watch what happens to the hydrometer. Have you seen the following thread?
Escape from Stuck Fermentation Mountain - AE to the Rescue!
olotti
Well-Known Member
Thanks for adding this reading, it was helpful. So should I rehydrate like a pack of 04 or 05 to add to the beer to assist the amylase in case all the 007 has crapped out and dropped to the bottom in the 3 weeks since brew day, even if bough the beers been sitting at 70-73 deg so I haven't cold crashed anything yet.
Adding more yeast can't hurt, but there are yeasts that are better attenuators than those you listed. Can you get some Wy3711? I'm sure you've got some money and time invested in the beer - you probably should choose the best options here.
olotti
Well-Known Member
I see it's the French saison yeast, will it give the beer those funky farmhouse esters and yeah I could prob get some at my lhbs. Is there anything more neutral? I'm not trying to bottom this thing out just get it a tad lower but if it doesn't budge than I'm fine with leaving it at the 10.7% it is and I'll just bourbon oak age it a long time.
Not sure if it will add odd flavors or not. I doubt it would overwelm the flavors in a beer as big as you're making. I've only used it in saissons and golden strong ales. You could also try a champagne yeast, but do a bit of research there, not sure how that would finish.
If you did get some flavor contribution, might be good
Chrisdaviking
Member
Rouse yeast, maybe oxygenate? also time will help. I would suggest if you see a fermentation slowing down too quickly and you're more than a point off, pitch the enzyme before the fermentation stops completely. I had a similar issue but some how got 20% ABV from a Irish Ale Strain rated to 14%. The yeast is confused and is still figuring things out. Energizer wouldn't hurt either if you're trying to get the most out of that one strain of yeast.
Once the beer passes a certain ABV it becomes toxic for certain yeasts without a regimented addition of oxygen, sugar and nutrients. If you're gonna re-pitch you could use a neutral champagne yeast or Lavin 1118?
Brettomomyces
LHBS Curmudgeon
White labs 099 high gravity might work, white labs claims it can go to 25% and carries the STA1 gene as well
olotti
Well-Known Member
So make a small starter of this and then pitch at high krausen.
olotti
Well-Known Member
Not sure if it will add odd flavors or not. I doubt it would overwelm the flavors in a beer as big as you're making. I've only used it in saissons and golden strong ales. You could also try a champagne yeast, but do a bit of research there, not sure how that would finish.
If you did get some flavor contribution, might be good
So it’s been 3 days since I added the enzyme in ur experience if it’s working should I see a drop in gravity by now? Cuz if not.....
I think I’m gonna go to my lhbs and buy some yeast, make a starter and pitch that in. I think the 007 has all but died off and I’m afraid if I don’t pitch new yeast then like another poster said all I’ll have is the sugars created buy the enzyme but nothing to eat/ferment them so I’ll end up with an even sweeter beer and possible bottle bombs when I add my CBC-1 at bottling.
Chrisdaviking
Member
You should see some movement at this point, otherwise the yeast is tapped out.
olotti
Well-Known Member
Yeah I swirled it again yesterday and there was minimal if any airlock activity and that’s prob just residual co2 from the initial fermentation. So I’m headed to the lhbs Tomm to grab some yeast, make a small starter and I’ll pitch that in and see what happens.
Chrisdaviking
Member
what's your beer at now in terms of ABV?
olotti
Well-Known Member
If its still at 1.054 it’s sitting at 10.7% right now. I was aiming for upper 12’s. I know kinda splitting hairs at this point.
The ABV won't disappoint anyone, but the FG might be another story. Chewy.
Chrisdaviking
Member
There's not a lot of yeasts to choose from at that abv. if you're fermenting in the 70's I'd use a wine yeast at this point to get your attenuation. below that I'd use like a high gravity yeast and make a starter or wyeast 1084? I'll let someone chime in though as well.
olotti
Well-Known Member
My plan was to get wlp099 super high gravity yeast, make a 1L starter and pitch that although I’m not really sure what size starter I’d need, 500, 1000 or 1500 and I’d prob pitch it at high krausen and ferment it in the 68-70 deg range and hit it with my o2 wand for 30sec or so.
only scanned this thread...but there are two different amylases available...gluco & alpha, gluco is what will finish it at 1.000...if your enzyme just said amylase, then it was more then likely alpha...
olotti
Well-Known Member
Yeah it’s alpha amylase which from what I understand should work as well provided thecyeast are still somewhat healthy, mine at this moment are not so I’ll have to pitch more so they can eat up the sugars the amylase is releasing.
no it doesn't work...you have to use gluco...not sure if that's your ONLY problem, but it sure is one of them....
i believe the technical terms, are alpha breaks down starches, and gluco breaks down longer chain dextrins?
olotti
Well-Known Member
Oh well that’s good to know, it just says amylase on the bottle and it’s what the lhbs guy gave me after telling him my issue.
only home distillers are really familiar with the difference.....and you'd more then likely have to order it from a still shop too...somewhere like brewhaus....
