Is my lager ready for secondary?

[Philygrips]

I'm brewing my first lager and not sure if it's ready to go to secondary
just yet. It's been sitting in the primary for 13 days at around 50
degrees. I started it at 68 and slowly dropped it after fermentation kicked in. OG reading was 1.044 and now we're looking at 1.024. According
to beer tools, we're hoping for a final gravity of around 1.013 which
puts us a bit off currently. I used one slant of White Labs WLP830 German Lager Yeast and made a starter about three days before pitching and stepped it once. Should we expect to hit our goal with the
3-4 weeks left to go in the secondary or should we keep it in the
primary a bit longer?

Grain Bill for a 5 gallon batch

2 row brewers malt 8.5 lbs
Vienna Malt 1.5 lbs
Crystal 75L .75 lbs
Carapils .5 lbs

 

[CoolHandLuke]

I keep mine in the primary @50F for 2 weeks, then I ramp up 2F every day until I hit 60F. It stays @60F for 48 hours. I next move it to a secondary for lagering @34F for 4 weeks. The only reason I use a secondary is to harvest the yeast from the primary for my next batch. I don't have a conical, yet...

If you have a conical or don't need to harvest, you can leave it in the primary for lagering.

Enjoy!

 

[andrew300]

Taste it. My first lager, an american standard lager was pitched at 46 and allowed to rise to 50 for 2 weeks. I then raised it to 55 for a couple of days and took a gravity reading and taste. It was total diacetyl. I raised it to 67 for 2 days and then took a reading again. It went down a few points and the diactyl went away. So, I would taste it and take a gravity reading to figure out if you are ready to lager.

 

[JonK331]

NO! Leave it in the primary for 4-6 weeks and then keg or bottle. Lager in bottles or keg for as long as you can wait. Be patient with Lager, it just takes longer.

 

[Philygrips]

Cool, thanks guys. Will it still do any fermentation at lagering temps?

 

[JonK331]

Cool, thanks guys. Will it still do any fermentation at lagering temps?

Once you cool it down to right around 32F the fermentation will stop. If, however, you mean fermentation around 50F, yes absolutely, it's just not done yet.

 

[Philygrips]

perfect, thanks!

 

[Yooper]

I make my lagers totally differently.

Primary until 75% of the way to FG (1.020 or so), then a diacetyl rest at 60-65 degrees for 48 hours.

After the diacetyl rest, and the beer is at FG, then it's ready to be racked and lagering begun.

I'm not a fan of keeping lagers in the primary the way I do ales. I think in the case of lagers (which are much "cleaner" flavored), it's important to get the beer off of the yeast cake when fermentation is done. It's also important to do a diacetyl rest while the beer is still in primary and the yeast are active.

 

[pjj2ba]

I always cool at least to 50 F before pitching and rarely do a diacetyl rest and have no problems with it. It has been my understanding that diacetyl production is most common when the yeast is pitched warm and allowed to start fermentation and then cooled to proper fermentation temps. However if pitched at fermentation temps, there is little diacetyl produced.

 

[smakudwn]

OG reading was 1.044 and now we're looking at 1.024

I would say this is NOT done. i would wait till your closer to your FG before you start to lager it.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

You should be closer to final gravity by now imo. A 1.044 OG lager @ 50* F that's been fermenting for 13 days should be way lower than 1.024. I would increase the temp, rouse the yeast, and put some yeast energizer in there and try and eek out as much as possible but it looks like this beer will finish high.

You said you made a stepped-up starter three days prior, is that right? When making your lager starters, I would try to give them plenty of time to ferment out and then chill them for 24 hours before stepping-up or pitching. So for a 2-step starter it's gonna take a day or so to ferment out, then a day in the fridge, then decant and step-up, then another day or so fermenting, then another day in the fridge. So that's at LEAST 4 days and that's IF the first step took off quickly (the second step should always take off quickly). And make sure to aerate the batch well and when cool. Lager yeasts need to be even more healthy than typical ales so they can finish the job.

 

[Yooper]

I always cool at least to 50 F before pitching and rarely do a diacetyl rest and have no problems with it. It has been my understanding that diacetyl production is most common when the yeast is pitched warm and allowed to start fermentation and then cooled to proper fermentation temps. However if pitched at fermentation temps, there is little diacetyl produced.

That's usually the case with my lagers, too. However, I have had some lagers that do have diacetyl in my tasting, even with a HUGE yeast starter and a yeast strain that isn't notorious for diacetyl. Because of that, I'm starting to perform a diacetyl rest on most of my lagers even though I pitch cold.

 

[fxdude]

That's usually the case with my lagers, too. However, I have had some lagers that do have diacetyl in my tasting, even with a HUGE yeast starter and a yeast strain that isn't notorious for diacetyl. Because of that, I'm starting to perform a diacetyl rest on most of my lagers even though I pitch cold.

Is there any draw back to performing a diacetyl rest other than the effort? I pitched cold and plan on tasting for diacetyl but was thinking of skipping the rest if I don't taste anything. If only good can come from a diacetyl rest and all it takes is extra effort then maybe I'll do one just to be sure.

 

[StMarcos]

I don't think there would be any drawback. You can store finished lagers in bottles at 70F and they will be fine for a long while. Of course things are different when there's still yeast in there. But, if you can take a lager that has a diacetyl problem, rest it warm, and the beer turns out flawless, there shouldn't be any problem with giving a rest to any lager, even if it doesn't need it.

 

[TurkCowan]

That's usually the case with my lagers, too. However, I have had some lagers that do have diacetyl in my tasting, even with a HUGE yeast starter and a yeast strain that isn't notorious for diacetyl. Because of that, I'm starting to perform a diacetyl rest on most of my lagers even though I pitch cold.

I usually do a large starter for my lagers as well but I'm starting to wonder if it's as necessary as I thought. For sure you shouldn't just pitch dry yeast and expect something to happen quickly, but I'll share an anecdote.

For my last two lagers, brew days were sort of impromtu so I didn't have time to make a good starter. For both, I just pulled some wort off the mash and boiled it separately. I shook it up, pitched some washed s-23 from the previous batch, and put it in a warm water bath while I went about normal brew day activities. 3-4 hours later I chilled, decanted, and pitched the slurry with no problems.

Also, in the past when I've had a slow start for a lager, I've pulled a glass of wort, put it overnight in a warm water bath, and pitched at krausen the next day to kick things off. I guess I'm just saying that a lager ferment shouldn't be feared and, at least for a 5 gallon batch, I've never used anything close to a 1 gallon starter and have always had good kickoff and krausen within 24 hrs. Anyone have a similar experience?

* I always pitch around 50F

 

[MikeSzwaya]

It may be too late now but consider a forced ferment test next time. Personally, I got tired of the "is it done yet?" feeling. A 250 ml sample is enough to use for a hydrometer test. This way, I know how much more I have to go and whether I should relax and let it finish out or consider adding more yeast.
For lagers, it's especially helpful because I use a diacetyl rest with about 1.002-1.003 to go. The yeast are still active and can clean things up easier. After a day or so, I rack off and slowly cool to 40°.
For a batch that's not even at 50% attenuation after 2 weeks (now 3), I wouldn't consider this a normal fermentation. You can add active yeast. Or you could warm it up to the mid 50's, rouse it up and see if it takes off. Either way, you may want to actively help it out.

 

[fxdude]

Just took a reading last night, after pitching 3.5 vials yeast cold, three weeks in the primary (12 days of airlock activity) I'm at 1.025 (OG 1.050, FG 1.010).

I drank the entire sample and had no oily feel or buttery taste but it's definitely been a slow fermentation. I think to be safe and to finish off the fermentation I'm going to start raising the temp from 52 to 62 over the next four days, then let it rest for two days at 62 and take a reading to see where it's at.

Then I'll transfer it to a secondary and over the course of a week I will drop the temp down to 37 (15 under my primary temp) and let it sit there for about four weeks.

So far it tastes almost exactly like Budweiser (it's an American Style Lager extract recipe) so hopefully I'm on the right track.

Funny all this effort and time goes into a making a Budweiser, it's been good practice and I have new respect for American lager companies but I'm looking forward to making something with a little more flavor like an Octoberfest. Luckily I'll just continue brewing ales while I wait on this one

 

[MikeSzwaya]

My hope is that those 3.5 vials we're awake and active - as in, put in a starter and added to the ferment when at high krausen. If so, you should be in good shape.
If not...your beer right now is totally void of oxygen. I would expect that the yeast you added would live off their stored reserves and then drop out fairly quickly. I wouldn't expect a significant change in gravity.
I'm only saying this from experience, having fought a belgian strong ale tooth and nail to finish up. I made a lot of cheap and expensive mistakes (vials, dry yeast, slurry from a brewery ) trying to revive it. A couple liters of actively fermenting beer from another batch was the only thing that did it.

 

[Adam78K]

^ agree with Yooper that is your best bet is to take a gravity reading and raise the temperature when it hits 1.020.