Is it too late for Octoberfest lager/marzen?

[enricocoron]

I know it should have been brewed in March, but in March I was doing my first all grain. Now that I think I may finally want a lager, Octoberfest seems perfect but is it too late?

I'm thinking I could do it this weekend...so 8/13....ferment to 8/25, diacetyl rest and then lager four weeks.

I've got a spare fridge with no controller, I'd buy one but problem is I use the freezer. The other problem is that I have meat in the freezer, a lot of it (four whole chooks and 2 whole beef tenderloins) ....so that if I set the fridge to it's warmest setting, it still bounces between 45-50...probably because of how much is in the freezer. I think if I can trim down the freezer stock...I can get the fridge to bounce between 50-55, or at least 48-53 or something, which should work either way....one of the WL yeasts (maybe southern german?) is rated down to 48 optimum.

I know there are OctoberFAST ales and such out there, but I really wanted a lager for a party I'm planning to coincide with our finishing off of landscaping our house...can I swing this? If the lager yeast swings down as low as 45 will it kill it?

 

[CopperHillBrewery]

You can pull it off if you skip the lager phase. Make your wort and chill to pitching temps...a little less than 50 F. Have a large starter of lager yeast and chill it to a couple degrees lower than your wort...somewhere around 46 F to 48 F. The WLP 820 / Wyeast 2206 seems to fit the style, but I like the WLP 830 / Wyeast 2124. Pitch and try to hold steady for 4 weeks. Can you fit your primary in a tub of water and place that in your fridge?

The swings in temp shouldn't kill the yeast, but it might make it work slower or put it to sleep (same thing I guess). Also, you shouldn't need a diacetyl rest if the yeast is pitched lower than wort temperature. I learned this technique from listening to one of the JZ podcasts. Apparently his award winning lagers just get 4 weeks in the primary without any lagering.

 

[Airborneguy]

When do you want it by?

I'm brewing a vienna lager tomorrow. It will be fermented out before the end of August and lagered probably until the end of Sept. I could force carb and tap it by the beginning of October and still have given it 5+ weeks of lagering.

If you want it by the end of September for the traditional Oktoberfest dates, you might be pushing it, but could probably still pull it off.

Hmmm.... just noticed your temp problems. You should be fine for fermentation, but what are you looking at for the lager phase?

 

[enricocoron]

I'm on the same schedule as you Airborne, but I was hoping for Saturday, October 1st, which will be the last weekend I think of the Bavarian celebrations.

To lager I'm going to use my kegerator so I could do it from 35-45 degrees though it may bobble a little but i'm less worried about that. Is there any disadvantage to a Diacetyl rest?

 

[Airborneguy]

Not at all. You may not even need it though. Taste a sample after fermentation is complete to see if you taste any diacetyl (buttery flavor). If you don't, you can skip the rest and go straight to lagering. If you are on track with time, I would do at least a 1 day rest just to be safe though.

 

[Spartan1979]

I brewed one last Friday. I'm hoping for fermentation within 2 weeks including a 24 hour diacetyl rest, then a month lagering which would have it ready about Sept 16. What day does Oktoberfest start?

 

[thelastdandy]

if you are in a hurry give this a try. i made it last year and it was great. i'll be brewing it again tommorow. it uses an ale yeast instead of the typical lager yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f63/biermunchers-oktoberfast-ale-ag-39021/

 

[BlackDogBrewhouse]

I just brewed my Ocktoberfest last Monday (August 1). I'm racking to the secondary today (August 11) and "lagering" until the end of September (I don't have a cold place to put beer to lager, so I put it in my cool-ish basement. Not lagering temps, but the beers come out fine). At the end of September I'll bottle it and drink by the end of October.

 

[rockytoptim]

You can do Ed Worts Oktoberfest as well. It uses Kolsch yeast.

Ed Wort's Oktoberfest

 

[enricocoron]

Got it on the ale yeast style, but really wanted to try a bottom fermenting yeast. I love Augustiner Helles, Paulaner, and Spaten's Octoberfest...I'm sure Augustiner must put out a great marzen but I've never been over to Bavaria or western austria except in the winter when only the helles was flowing.

I think I'll try it in my brothers fridge which is slightly warmer than mine and has an off switch for the freezer and he's not using at the moment. Gonna kick my starter off tonight, brew saturday afternoon, then pitch sunday the 14th, diacetyl rest 24-48 hours around the 26th-27th at low 60's using a lot of ice and frozen water bottles in my swampie, then lager 4 weeks at 40 then keg around sept. 25th for Oct. 1 fiesta.

I'll work out the recipe today/tomorrow but I'm thinking about a good portion of Vienna and Munich with Pilsen making up the remainder, and going a Hallertu at 60, and a Saaz at 15 with southern German lager yeast from WL.

 

[enricocoron]

Hows this...

6 lbs. Munich
5 lbs. German Pilsen
.8 oz Aromatic

1 oz. Hallertauer 60 min
1 oz Saaz 15 min

WLP820 (marzen/oktoberfest yeast) with a 1.5 liter starter 48 hours, drop it to 48 degrees and pitch to 50 degree wort lautered out after 152 degree mash for 60 minutes. My effic. is more like 65-70 percent with single batch sparges.

going to use RO/DI with gypsum added back for Calcium in mash to munich levels....maybe a splash of baking soda to bring the bicarb levels back up as well.

est OG - 1.055
22.6 IBUs
color = 8.8
est ABV 5.4%

 

[Sokrateez]

Instead of the German Oktoberfest, just say it's for the KW Oktoberfest! Starts on the 7th of October and runs for 1 week. Should give you a bit more time!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Looks like you're in SoCal, as am I. I'm planning my Oktoberfest party for Oct 22, even though that's well later than the "traditional" Oktoberfest.

But you're American. We don't celebrate royal weddings here; like every other foreign holiday we simply bastardize it to be a drinking occasion. And Southern California and Munich, Germany have pretty wildly different weather, so the "seasonal" aspect can clearly be pushed later in the year. And nobody but weirdo beer geeks know that Oktoberfest starts in September, anyway.

So brew it now (I brewed mine last night), push the party a bit later than a traditional O'Fest, and none of your friends [who are all receiving free beer] will complain.

 

[Airborneguy]

My vienna is almost ready to be taken off the burner. So far, it went perfect. First decoction too!

Like I said earlier, I plan on having this ready for Oct 1st.

 

[enricocoron]

Hows my grain bill though? I guess it wil work, I read that you want to use up to 50% Munich for traditional marzens, with either two row or Pilsen making up the rest, and subbing in a pound or so of Vienna or Aromatic was also common. I didn't think I needed a Cara pils cause the Melanoidin in the Munich should be fine

 

[markg388]

since I see you like the authentic german styles... lose that late addition hop! it is going to clash with the maltyness and you will regret it.

 

[enricocoron]

Even mellow Saaz? I did a 15 minute in my Belgian (Saaz) and it was pretty chill. But I'll read some more. Brew day has been pushed to Sunday now because my bros fridge also tops out around 40....weird. Anyways, I am looking for a controller today because my starter needs to be at ferment temps of 50 correct?

I picked up 5 lbs. German Pilsen and 1lb. Aromatic from one brew store...but they were out of munich 10...only had 25-35....thought of combining with some Vienna but I held off and go all Munich or 4 lbs. munich 10 and one lb. munich 20.

 

[markg388]

Yeah, even mellow saaz.

for me late addition hops in o-fest make it taste like american knock offs rather then the real deal. w/ that one oz of late saaz, i'm betting it's going to come out more like alaskan amber that's been fermented with lager yeast. as we all say, brew what you like to drink, i just know when I added the late hops to one of my o-fests I regretted it and I figure it's worth a heads up. and I'm pretty sure you can do the starter at room temp as long as you chill and decant the liquid, but hopefully someone else can verify.

as for the malt bill, as long as you stick to german basemalts and let them do most of the talking you should come out just fine. I've also never done one w/ aromatic, I'm interested in how it comes out. post results ? good luck!

 

[enricocoron]

would it be better to split the Saaz up to .5 oz at 30 min and .5 at 15....or maybe just do .75 at 30?

 

[markg388]

oktoberfest should really be a full-blown malt experience, flavor and aroma hops are pretty much out of place. you'll get the most authentic taste with a bittering addition in the low to mid 20 IBU range and putting the hops away for the day.

 

[enricocoron]

I see a lot of recipes out there with 15 minute additions...but as you suggest maybe they are not authentic. I was kicking a Negro Modelo the other day and I thought I could pick up a nice little hop aroma to it, but again that's an Oktoberfest brewed in the new world, and unfortunately my local shops don't have any old world Marzens and it's been a long time since I've had one.

 

[enricocoron]

So the final recipe was:

5 lbs. German Pilsen
3.5 lbs. Munich 10
3 lbs. Vienna
1 lb. Aromatic

1 oz Hallertu 60 min
1 oz saaz at 25 min

WL Oktoberfest/marzen yeast 60 hour 1 liter starter 1.045 at 53 degrees.

mashed 144 30 minutes, then 156 for 45....batch sparge at 168....OG =1.051 (low efficiency)