is it too late for a diacetyl rest?

[amcclai7]

I brewed an Oktoberfest 5 days ago. Wort went into the fermentor @ 1.058. I noticed very little airlock activity at any point. I opened the lid today and saw very few signs of a fermentation. No krausen and very little gunk on the sides of the bucket. I was afraid, that even though I did a multi-stage starter with fresh yeast (WLP838), I would have to run and pickup a packet of S-23.

I took a gravity reading and to my amazment it read 1.014! Its practically done fermenting! I have a temp controlled fridge and checked the temp of the sample I pulled. It was 54F but I figured such a small amount of liquid between being sucked into a turkey baster and squirted into a room temp glass probably gained a couple of degrees. 52F is maybe a touch on the warm side for a lager, but certainly not enough for a lager to finish in 5 days.

This is my first lager and I have heard that they often take 2 weeks to reach terminal gravity. What I am afraid of is this: There was quite a bit of diacetyl in the sample I pulled. I have also heard that for the diacetyl rest to work the yeast still need to be fermenting, at least a little bit. I bumped the fridge temp up to around 57 and will bump it up to 62 Sun morning and then 65-67 Sun evening and let it stay there for several days before slowly stepping it back down to lager temps.

Is it too late for this method to work, and if so, is there anything differently I can do?

 

[amcclai7]

turns out I was freaking out over nothing http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue1.2/fix.html

 

[amcclai7]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/diacetyl-rest-too-late-395114/index2.html

Here's a similar thread. Somebody suggested this in reference to doing a diacetyl rest after active fermentation is done:

"Wouldn't hurt, but wouldn't do much. It needs to be actively fermenting. Make a 1L starter or so with OG similar to your beer, add yeast and an airlock, then pitch the whole thing at high krausen, ~8-12 hours later."

I've got mine sitting in the mid 60's right now (that's as warm as I can get anything in my house right now) If after a few days the diacetyl is still out of control why not follow the above advice, but why do I need to add extra yeast. Couldn't i just pour a water DME mixture, swirl the fermenter to rouse the yeast and let that do the job?

 

[wintersabbath21]

Wow, I had literally the exact same experience with my Oktoberfest and WLP838 that is still in the carboy right now. I did a multi stage starter, pitched the yeast and fermented at 50 F but saw VERY little activity from my blowoff tube. I did get a little foam (krausen) on top, but at the time I thought that was residual from my aeration process. After 1.5 weeks, I was getting anxious that nothing was happening so I took a gravity reading. And wouldn't you know, I was already at my projected terminal (1.015)! This was another huge surprise.

At any rate, my thoughts on the question at hand are as follows: While not ideal, I am still going to go ahead with my diacetyl rest as planned (ramp up to 62F over 3 days and rest for 2-3 days more). My logic for this is that there is still a bunch of yeast that is still in solution and a temperature bump will only aid in clearing up some of the expected off flavors that were evident in the gravity sample I took. An extended lagering phase at the appropriate 40F (cooled from 62 F at a rate of 1-2 F/day) will probably clear out the rest of the off flavors if the D-rest wasn't enough.

 

[wintersabbath21]

UPDATE!! So as mentioned above, I decided to go ahead and conduct my diacetyl despite my Oktoberfest already being near my terminal gravitiy. Over the next 3 days I raised the temp from 50 F to 62.5 F and let it sit there for another 2-3 days. To add to my continued surprise with this largely unanticipated fermentation, the D-Rest seemed to help!

My gravity is now at 1.014-1.013 and my subjective impression of the taste is improved. I feel that the butterscotch character has died down and replaced with the familiar sulfur compounds typical in a young lager. It is by no means completely gone, but I feel that its on the right track.

Now its time for the SLOW cool down to 40 F and the lagering period till October. I will give my impressions of the finished product then.

Cheers!

 

[Dog House Brew]

I personally have found improved results when I transfer to secondary. I like to get the beer off the yeast. I crash it at 32 for 3 or 4 days and then transfer. I have found that it gives me a cleaner taste. I did a side by side with my last lager using wlp 802. Everyone liked the transferred beer best. It isn't a must, but I do think it is worth it.

 

[SpeedYellow]

It's NEVER too late for a d-rest. In the dozens of lagers I've brewed, I've only had major diacetyl problems twice, both times due to an insufficient d-rest. So I just pulled the keg out of the keezer, swirled it around to get the yeast back in suspension, and set in a warm room (70F) on its side for 2 weeks. The second time I pitched more yeast, just for the heck of it. Both times the diacetyl disappeared and I had great beers.

 

[amcclai7]

Sorry I never updated about my beer but yes the d rest, even after the bulk of fermentation had finished, worked. It took a while but the final product was very good and had no off flavors.

One thing I did notice, and I assume this is typical with a lager, is that the beer changed significantly while in the keg. I mean every few days a new flavor would jump up or fade away.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Diacetyl will be cleaned up if you let the beer sit on the yeast at the same temps but it takes longer to cleanup is my understanding. Raising the temps just speeds the process along.