Is "full-body" or "medium-body" with Kveik possible?

[garlicbread]

Hey!

I tried my first Kveik(dry Voss) brew a few days ago. (I've done 3 us-05 brews prior, so still a beginner)

So far it came out really tasty, but with quite a thin mouthfeel. It does not taste watery, just thin.
My OG was around 1.063 with some Melanoiden in it. The wort itself came out pretty thick and full of malty flavor.
After 4 days of fermenting though it thinned out quite a lot.

After googling I came upon this in an article.

Kveik appears to, potentially as a result of its voracity, be a strain that absolutely guts the body of the beer, as well as leaves a thinner mouthfeel. While there might be a massive aroma, bouquet, or flavor explosion, the body itself tends to be thinner, if not incredibly thin. The mouthfeel tends to be extremely light in comparison to other strains, such as Nottingham, or most valued Belgian strains – particularly when paired with high carbonation.

Source - Kveik Yeast - Colorado Brewers Guild

And checking this in some more articles, Kveik seems to be more suited for thinner beers.
With "full-body mash" (68c - 1 hour) creating potential problems? (5 Tips for Success with Kveik Yeast)

Has anyone managed to get a thicker mouthfeel with Kveik? I would welcome some ideas I could experiment with.
For beer style, for example, let's take something like APA as a base.

 

[Protos]

Kveik yeasts have been selected for centuries to ferment beers up from 1.080. Only then the yeast manifests its valuable qualities, mouthfeel included.
"Light Kveik" is an unnatural concept, that's why it rarely (if ever) turns out any good.

I've tried like a dozen various styles "adapted" to Kveik yeasts and each one turned out utterly crappy, with no exceptions.
Now I use my Norwegian Farmhouse yeasts only in traditional high-ABV Nordic recipes, and I'm happy with my Kveiks. I wasn't when I was experimenting with it in the styles foreign for the yeast.

 

[garlicbread]

Kveik yeasts have been selected for centuries to ferment beers up from 1.080. Only then the yeast manifests its valuable qualities, mouthfeel included.
"Light Kveik" is an unnatural concept, that's why it rarely (if ever) turns out any good.

I've tried like a dozen various styles "adapted" to Kveik yeasts and each one turned out utterly crappy, with no exceptions.
Now I use my Norwegian Farmhouse yeasts only in traditional high-ABV Nordic recipes, and I'm happy with my Kveiks. I wasn't when I was experimenting with it in the styles foreign for the yeast.

How much yeast are you using for 1.080 recipes? Overpitching/Underpitching?

 

[Protos]

In high-gravity beers, I dose Kveik yeasts exactly as I would dose a "common" (f. ex. English) yeast for a "standard-gravity" (say, 1.050) batch.
Extreme underpitching is said to be beneficial with the original Norwegian multistrain cultures, though not so much with the commercially available isolated Kveik strains. Even though, lower-than-standard pitching rate is sufficient and works fine.

Quite often I use a whole cake from the previous batch, that is overpitch a lot. The consideration is that I don't always want Kveik esters to be prominent, they sometimes can be quite weird and unusual (cooked orange in Voss, anyone, or ghi butter in Hornindal) so the overpitch can give you a cleaner (although blander) beer.

I think, the unremarkable performance of Kveik yeasts in lower gravity beers is one of the reasons why Kveik-fermented beers have failed to become "the new IPA", despite the raving expectations many expressed when the Norwegian Farmhouse strains were just entering the market. There's a certain niche for "Kveik-IPAs", "Kveik-Pseudolagers" etc but that's just a tiny niche, even among the beer-geeks.

 

[youngdh]

I use both Voss and Hornindal in my session IPAs with no loss of body. I seriously under pitch. For 3G fermenter I pitch 5ml of slurry.

My latest batch that I just kegged I was aiming for a low ABV pale ale using Hornindal. My target ABV by recipe was 3.9. I purposefully mashed high (160F) to limit fermentables to bring ABV lower with out leaving it cloyey. Final ABV is 3.2. Tasting it going into the keg it didn’t lack for body/mouthfeel nor tasted sweet. 15% of the grist was oats.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Has anyone managed to get a thicker mouthfeel with Kveik? I would welcome some ideas I could experiment with.

Not sure. I found that a recipe that I enjoyed fermented with US-05 came out a bit sweet when fermented with Voss so I swapped the Crystal for Munich. It could just be the orange esters adding to the sweet perception. I tend to get around the same attenuation levels with Voss as US-05. I have not noticed a thin mouthfeel on my Voss beers. Many of them have been in the Hazy Pale Ale or IPA range though, with some Flaked Oats and/or Malted Wheat in the grain bill.

With "full-body mash" (68c - 1 hour) creating potential problems? (5 Tips for Success with Kveik Yeast)

The link you provided indicates that "most kveik strains" do not ferment maltotriose, so would leave a higher FG, likely with more sweetness and body. The tip to overcome this issue is to mash at a lower temp for longer to overcome this issue. I think they are saying that a "full-body mash" might leave a beer that is too thick and sweet.

Most kveik strains do not ferment maltotriose very efficiently. Maltotriose is a three-glucose chain that makes up ~20% of the carbohydrates in wort. This means that many kveik fermented beers will often finish up in the 1.012-1.020 (3-5ºP) range depending on your original gravity.

 

[Gilbert Spinning Horse]

Your dry Voss, is it from the original farmhouse strain or is it an isolate from a yeast lab?
There are many types of kveiks and farmhouse yeasts, some are better than others for particular styles.
Basically, 'kveik' is Norwegian for 'yeast' so if you replace the words you'll see that unless you talk about a specific strain, a lot of questions and responses are meaningless.

 

[garlicbread]

with some Flaked Oats

Oats thicken up the texture?

Your dry Voss, is it from the original farmhouse strain or is it an isolate from a yeast lab?
There are many types of kveiks and farmhouse yeasts, some are better than others for particular styles.
Basically, 'kveik' is Norwegian for 'yeast' so if you replace the words you'll see that unless you talk about a specific strain, a lot of questions and responses are meaningless.

I have this one!
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/product-details/lalbrew-voss-kveik-ale-yeast/

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

"Thinning" at 4 days? I assume that it's near the end of fermentation and not carbonated. Before determining if it's thin or not, you need to carbonate it at the desired volume.

If it's thin after carbonation, you need to review your mash temperature and increase the temp to increase body.

MC

 

[youngdh]

Hey!

I tried my first Kveik(dry Voss) brew a few days ago. (I've done 3 us-05 brews prior, so still a beginner)

So far it came out really tasty, but with quite a thin mouthfeel. It does not taste watery, just thin.
My OG was around 1.063 with some Melanoiden in it. The wort itself came out pretty thick and full of malty flavor.
After 4 days of fermenting though it thinned out quite a lot.

After googling I came upon this in an article.

Source - Kveik Yeast - Colorado Brewers Guild

And checking this in some more articles, Kveik seems to be more suited for thinner beers.
With "full-body mash" (68c - 1 hour) creating potential problems? (5 Tips for Success with Kveik Yeast)

Has anyone managed to get a thicker mouthfeel with Kveik? I would welcome some ideas I could experiment with.
For beer style, for example, let's take something like APA as a base.

Mash hot like in the low to mid 160s. This will leave more long chain carbs that the yeast struggle to metabolize. You’ll get a fuller bodied beer that’s not sweet. You will loose some final gravity points as a result which means a lower ABV beer. I just did a NEIPA fermented with Hornindal at 95F that I mashed at 160F. My recipe’s target ABV with the grain bill was 3.9%. I ended up at 3.2% due to the hot mash. The grist had 10% flaked oats and 10% malted oats which also helps with mouth feel. The final result did not taste like cloudy hop water. It wasn’t as full bodied as I would have liked so may mash hotter next time and/or add some dextrin malt to the grist. Yes, I was shooting for a low ABV, crushable NEIPA with this recipe.

 

[Protos]

Yesterday I tasted for the first time my Rongoteus "Dubbel" (recipe by Mikka Laitinen). 80% Pilsner+Vienna, 14% Rye, 3.5% Dark Crystal Rye, 2.5% Black Rye, Voss Kveik, 7% ABV, 23 IBU.
The beer greatly exceeded my expectations, full of flavour and body. Kveik yeasts definitely can produce full-bodied beers, when helped by some chewier malts.

Mikka's suggestion to brew Rye beers (including Sahti) with Kveik was a revelation to me. I didn't care much for my Norwegian Farmhouse ales and my German classic Roggenbiers (fermented with Weizen yeasts). However, the combination of Rye, Dark Grains and Kveik produced incredible results. I finally know what Kveik-fermented beers I really like. I've made already four beers in this line (Rongoteus, two boiled "Sahtis" and another Dark Rye beer by my own recipe) and soon will brew a fifth - the Toasted Rye Porter from his blog. Can't recommend more.

So, if you need some body in your Kveik-fermented beers you might try adding a bit of Rye. It's [relatively] true to the style and at 5-10% it adds some nice body and no flavours.

 

[garlicbread]

Yesterday I tasted for the first time my Rongoteus "Dubbel" (recipe by Mikka Laitinen). 80% Pilsner+Vienna, 14% Rye, 3.5% Dark Crystal Rye, 2.5% Black Rye, Voss Kveik, 7% ABV, 23 IBU.
The beer greatly exceeded my expectations, full of flavour and body. Kveik yeasts definitely can produce full-bodied beers, when helped by some chewier malts.

Mikka's suggestion to brew Rye beers (including Sahti) with Kveik was a revelation to me. I didn't care much for my Norwegian Farmhouse ales and my German classic Roggenbiers (fermented with Weizen yeasts). However, the combination of Rye, Dark Grains and Kveik produced incredible results. I finally know what Kveik-fermented beers I really like. I've made already four beers in this line (Rongoteus, two boiled "Sahtis" and another Dark Rye beer by my own recipe) and soon will brew a fifth - the Toasted Rye Porter from his blog. Can't recommend more.

So, if you need some body in your Kveik-fermented beers you might try adding a bit of Rye. It's [relatively] true to the style and at 5-10% it adds some nice body and no flavours.

Cool, I brewed 14% Rye today.

The beer I brewed the first time with Kveik was ready on day 3, and I got exactly what I wanted malty, honey notes from melanoidin, etc. Then I let it sit to 7 days and the malty taste completely disappeared and I got a very very thin, slightly sour beer with funky but tasty yeast aromas. And I let this bottle condition for 7 more days so 17 in total, and now all the yeast funk disappeared and I was left with a very "Default" beer taste, but it was no longer thin or watery.
I have no clue wtf happened there, people besides me tasted it and confirmed all these stages without me sharing my observations with them. So I know I was not making this transformation up.

Right now I brewed a second attempt.
10 Liters (2.5galons) of water.
600g Pale Rye (1.3 lbs)
900g Pale Ale (2 lbs)
1500g Pilsen (3.3 lbs)
500g Munich (1.1 lbs)
50g Melanoiden (0.1 lbs)
400g Dextrin (0.9 lbs)
5 grams of Dry Voss Kveik

Beer Smith Predictions: SG 1.084, ABV 8.5%, IBU 30 (I didn't measure it myself)
I did a "Fullbody Mash", for 1 hour at 68c (155f)

Honestly, I just wanted to try high SG kveik like was suggested in this thread and I combined my leftover grains in a wild experiment. I won't be home for a few weeks and wanted to use up the grains.

I'll ferment this at 35-40c (95f) for 3 days, and bottle it for 3-5 days to see if I can preserve the malty taste from the previous attempt. Might try pasteurization on a bottle or two.
I'm hoping the 14% Rye will show up without being overpowering.

 

[Protos]

That looks like a very good recipe. I'd lovely brew it myself.
Rye, Melano, Kveik yeast and high gravity guarantee as good Kveik-fermented beer as it could be. There's little ways to make it better.

 

[Protos]

Then I let it sit to 7 days and the malty taste completely disappeared and I got a very very thin, slightly sour beer with funky but tasty yeast aromas.

Looks like a slight wild infection, actually. No funk in commercial Kveik yeasts, a lot of it in the wild bugs. Later increase in mouthfeel could be due to the Glycerol, wild and diastatic yeasts produce. Wild bugs could be pretty tasty as well. My last Belgian Blond got infected, came out nothing like a Blond but finally turned out to be a very tasty beer in its own right.