is a full body always sweet?

[O-Ale-Yeah]

As near as I can gather, if I use grist that produces a fuller body and mash at a higher temp, I'll get a fuller body but is that always going to be sweet?

I would like to make a full bodied beer that isn't sweet.

 

[cubalz]

If you mash at say 154, you will get more sweetness but it is not the way to achieve body. If you want more body, I recommend increasing the grain bill to end up with a higher abv. Alcohol contributes to the fullness of the beer.

 

[HB_ATL73]

alcohol contributes to fullness and you can also add grain such as carapils which increases foam/mouthfeel/fullness without adding flavor or color

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Thanks, Cubalz, how many pounds for a 5 gallon brew?

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Thanks HB_ATL73, how many pounds of carapils for a 5 gallon batch?

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks HB_ATL73, how many pounds of carapils for a 5 gallon batch?

I went as high as 30% of the grain bill and am still not sure if it did what it should do. Add also ten to twenty percent of wheat (malt), this will also increases body.

 

[dmtaylor]

Body and sweetness are NOT the same thing. You can have either one without the other.

You can, and should where possible, select your yeast strain based on its attenuation range, which varies widely between different yeasts.

You can also manipulate mash temperature high (like at 158-162 F) to achieve more body.

FYI, Carapils is worthless. Try rye instead. Rye works wonders for body and mouthfeel, and head retention as well. Use it for >15% of the fermentables. Wheat will also work, but not quite as well as rye in my experience.

 

[cubalz]

To start, I would take your recipe that seems to "thin" and increase the grain bill 20% and see where that nets you. Here is the thing, you need to be careful increasing the grain bill too much and making the end product not within the BJCP style guidelines for that particular beer. If that does not matter to you, just keep incrementally increasing the grain bill until you get the mouth feel you want.

 

[Miraculix]

Body and sweetness are NOT the same thing. You can have either one without the other.

You can, and should where possible, select your yeast strain based on its attenuation range, which varies widely between different yeasts.

You can also manipulate mash temperature high (like at 158-162 F) to achieve more body.

FYI, Carapils is worthless. Try rye instead. Rye works wonders for body and mouthfeel, and head retention as well. Use it for >15% of the fermentables. Wheat will also work, but not quite as well as rye in my experience.

I agree regarding the rye, but it also brings a very particular taste that not everybody likes (I am not a big fan of the taste).

 

[gregkeller]

Lots of good ways above to create mouthfeel/body in a beer. Ingredients/mash temp/yeast selection are the three places where you can change mouthfeel of the beer. If you want it to be "full" but not sweet, then I wouldn't change the yeast for a less attenuative strain. If you go with wlp002 or something, that yeast is gonna stop working when there are still sugars left and you are going to get more "sweetness" along with the body. Using wheat or rye is going to add more long chain carbs that no yeast is going to be able to chew on (except for Brett) and you will get body/mouthfeel without sweetness. More caramel malts are going to add sweet but unfermentable sweetness to the wort and you'll end up with a sweeter AND more full mouthfeel. High mash temp is supposed to give you more unfermentable longer chain oligo/polysaccharides that lend body to the beer.
Lots of different ways to get there and dial in exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Calder]

How many pounds of carapils for a 5 gallon batch?

I went as high as 30% of the grain bill and am still not sure if it did what it should do.

Carapils will help with head retention. Not going to do too much for body, you would be better with some Aromatic or melanoiden malt, or some Munich. Wheat can be good, and helps with head retention, and a little body, but it does not add any malt flavor, so using a lot of wheat in place of malt grains, will give you less flavor.

When I started, I found a lot of my beers were 'thin' or lacking something. I don't know what it was, but I kept going and pretty soon my beers became 'fuller' and more satisfying. 25 years on. and I still have no idea what changed to go from making 'thin' beers to balanced beers. I guess I just became a better brewer.

Unless you are using Carapils to get a certain characteristic in your recipe, don't go over 0.5 lbs in 5 gallons (~5%)

 

[Miraculix]

Carapils will help with head retention. Not going to do too much for body, you would be better with some Aromatic or melanoiden malt, or some Munich. Wheat can be good, and helps with head retention, and a little body, but it does not add any malt flavor, so using a lot of wheat in place of malt grains, will give you less flavor.

When I started, I found a lot of my beers were 'thin' or lacking something. I don't know what it was, but I kept going and pretty soon my beers became 'fuller' and more satisfying. 25 years on. and I still have no idea what changed to go from making 'thin' beers to balanced beers. I guess I just became a better brewer.

Unless you are using Carapils to get a certain characteristic in your recipe, don't go over 0.5 lbs in 5 gallons (~5%)

Head was indeed good at the 30% carapils beer. It tasted just like base malt to me, so no harm in overdoing it a bit imo.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

... Using wheat or rye is going to add more long chain carbs....

My current plan is to use wheat because I like it. I have heard that most people don't like the taste of wheat mixed with rye, is that right?

… High mash temp is supposed to give you more unfermentable longer chain oligo/polysaccharides that lend body to the beer..

I was planning to mash at 152 because I worry about getting a sweet beer but I don't want a thin beer. Prolly a good plan?

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

Carapils will help with head retention. Not going to do too much for body, you would be better with some Aromatic or melanoiden malt, or some Munich. Wheat can be good, and helps with head retention, and a little body, but it does not add any malt flavor, so using a lot of wheat in place of malt grains, will give you less flavor.

When I started, I found a lot of my beers were 'thin' or lacking something. I don't know what it was, but I kept going and pretty soon my beers became 'fuller' and more satisfying. 25 years on. and I still have no idea what changed to go from making 'thin' beers to balanced beers. I guess I just became a better brewer.

Unless you are using Carapils to get a certain characteristic in your recipe, don't go over 0.5 lbs in 5 gallons (~5%)

Thanks for the info and perspective, greatly appreciated.

 

[mongoose33]

My current plan is to use 30 wheat because I like it. I have heard that most people don't like the taste foe wheat mixed with rye, is that right?

I've never heard that. I suppose it may depend on the proportions. I brew a rye ale with quite the rye flavor punch, and include 8 oz of chocolate wheat for color and head retention. Not the same as regular wheat, I know.

You will either like it, or not. I have a couple friends who are ga-ga over it; others' reactions? "Meh." Depends on what you like.

I was planning to mash at 152 because I worry about getting a sweet beer but I don't want a thin beer. Prolly a good plan?

You're not going to see a huge difference between 152 and 154. I typically aim for 151-153.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

I've never heard that. I suppose it may depend on the proportions. I brew a rye ale with quite the rye flavor punch, and include 8 oz of chocolate wheat for color and head retention. Not the same as regular wheat, I know.

You will either like it, or not. I have a couple friends who are ga-ga over it; others' reactions? "Meh." Depends on what you like.

You're not going to see a huge difference between 152 and 154. I typically aim for 151-153.

Ah thanks, good advice. Sorry for my typos, sounds like you got through them.