IPA not getting the taste I want....Help!

[Stillraining]

More Hops, as has been stated ..we use 1oz per gallon for around 52 IBU and only start at 30min additions. I dont believe its a bottle thing either. I keg and bottle..no difference. Almost prefer the bottles carbonation consistency wise.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

yep, adding them as a fwh (while bringing up to boil) is going to impart mainly bittering, and no flavor.

This simply isn't the case. If FWH additions were the same as 60 min boil additions we wouldn't do it! It adds considerable hop flavor and doesn't all boil off because of the unique properties of hop oils at different temps. I use FWH and whirlpool additions as the vast majority of my hops in most beers I make. Quick Google search, probably better sources out there...

http://www.brew365.com/technique_firstworthopping.php

 

[TANSTAAFB]

And the bitterness you do get tends to be smoother and more enjoyable. I can make a 100 IBU beer that doesn't feel like someone just assaulted my tongue with a pinecone!

 

[Olaf_Deathbringer]

This simply isn't the case. If FWH additions were the same as 60 min boil additions we wouldn't do it! It adds considerable hop flavor and doesn't all boil off because of the unique properties of hop oils at different temps. I use FWH and whirlpool additions as the vast majority of my hops in most beers I make. Quick Google search, probably better sources out there...

http://www.brew365.com/technique_firstworthopping.php

This is exactly correct. The flavor from the hop oils binds with the glycosides in the wort, essentially "locking" them into the wort. Since they are now chemically bonded to the wort and are no longer in their original form, boiling the wort doesn't burn them off like it normally would. Adding hops before the boil adds massive, smooth and wonderful hop flavor.

Anyone who doesn't believe us obviously has never tried it. Brew a batch and only use fwh and you'll be quite surprised!

Remember, they do impart IBU's. I find that they impart the same amount of IBU'S as if they were added at 60 minutes.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

This is exactly correct. The flavor from the hop oils binds with the glycosides in the wort, essentially "locking" them into the wort. Since they are now chemically bonded to the wort and are no longer in their original form, boiling the wort doesn't burn them off like it normally would. Adding hops before the boil adds massive, smooth and wonderful hop flavor.

Anyone who doesn't believe us obviously has never tried it. Brew a batch and only use fwh and you'll be quite surprised!

Remember, they do impart IBU's. I find that they impart the same amount of IBU'S as if they were added at 60 minutes.

I do as well and Beersmith calculates FWH as contributing similar IBU as 60 min additions. However, because it smooths the bitterness out you may want to bump up your amounts a little in hop forward beers.

Try making a beer with nothing but FWH and whirlpool additions--nothing at 60/30/15/5/2--and you will be amazed at the smooth bitterness, awesome flavor, and wonderful, bright, aroma you get!

 

[kristiismean]

This simply isn't the case. If FWH additions were the same as 60 min boil additions we wouldn't do it! It adds considerable hop flavor and doesn't all boil off because of the unique properties of hop oils at different temps. I use FWH and whirlpool additions as the vast majority of my hops in most beers I make. Quick Google search, probably better sources out there...

http://www.brew365.com/technique_firstworthopping.php

Then yes, I stand corrected. i did not know about the flavor, i just thought it "smoothed" out the bitterness.

Good to know, might start doing it..

 

[whovous]

Love the name, TANSTAAFB. What happens when you use something like Citra as a FWH? I've been told to avoid using it as a 60 minute boil hop because it can taste like cat pee if you are not careful. Does FWH mitigate this problem?

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Love the name, TANSTAAFB. What happens when you use something like Citra as a FWH? I've been told to avoid using it as a 60 minute boil hop because it can taste like cat pee if you are not careful. Does FWH mitigate this problem?

I haven't used Citra as a FWH so I'm not sure. I tend to use Warrior (Magnum is good too) as my bittering hop and then use others like Citra in the whirlpool

 

[kristiismean]

so If I was planning on using .75 oz of Apollo as a 60 minute hop, how would you adjust that for a fwh?

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Need more info! What's your recipe and what style are you shooting for?

 

[kristiismean]

Need more info! What's your recipe and what style are you shooting for?

NE IPA
15 LBS Two Track Dakota malt @ 150
.75 oz Apollo at 60
.5 oz Citra/Amarillo/Galaxy at 2 minutes
1 oz Citra/amarillo/galaxy at 0
using Lallemand dry London ESB but Huge starter thus no crystal, so should get down into the 1.016-1.017 range
Dry 5 days:
1.5 oz Citra
1.5 Amarillo
2.5 galaxy

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I've never used Apollo but it looks like a great high alpha hop for bittering and has some great flavors and aromas that come out if used as a late hop addition. Some of these characteristics would also be retained with FWH. I'd just bump it to 1oz and throw everything else in the whirlpool at flameout

 

[kristiismean]

i use Apollo in pretty much everything as a bittering hop, except english beers. I like it's character.

I'll give it a shot, see what happens. i just made this same hop schedule with a 9 lbs pale 2 row and 4 lbs two track dakota using scottish ale yeast. it's an extremely drinkable beer.

 

[Agtronic]

Though I have had much success brewing in general, I continue to struggle with IPA. I just have not been able to nail that big fresh hop character I crave. And these days, commercial brewers seem to have no problem with this. (Judging by how many amazing IPAs are on the market now.)

I am living proof that the common "add more hops" advice is not the answer, at least not for me.

I made a beer a few years back where I pretty much said to myself "OK, you want hops, here you got hops". I used over a pound of hops in a 5 gal batch, most of it used in whirlpool and dryhop. All I really got out of it was a 10" thick hop cake at the bottom of the fermentor. I STILL didn't get the big hop character I was after. You can read about it and see pictures here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=542358

Maybe you can pick up on some of the advice that was offered there. I haven't yet figured out what I'm doing wrong, but hopefully you will figure out your issues!

Good luck!