cheater hops

[fluketamer]

i forget where i first heard this term but when i did i wanted to find a list of these magical hops that make any beer perfect. i found a blog in 2019 but thats it. i know i saw on one of bobby recipes that citra can basically make any ipa great. i think my latest (and first) ipa is great but think it may be cause i put 5 oz of citra in it.

mosaic may be similar

someone mentioned sabro.

are there hops like citra that can really hide a lot of flaws and make any ipa taste juicy/fruity/citrusy like citra.

 

[hottpeper13]

Yes!

 

[fluketamer]

Yes!

sorry if i am being simple i am a newbie at hop forward ales .

i found another blog that mentioned the three cheaters as citra, mosaic and galaxy.

i have never brewed with galaxy.

my latest ale now is

10 lbs of 2 row
1/2 lb of caramel20
.25 lbs of carapils

bry 97 at 64 degrees

.5 oz chiniookat 60
4 oz citra whirlpool

i wanted to dry hop with 2 oz of hops instead of 1 this time. i am planning on citra/zamba but i am now thinking maybe overpowering is a better term than cheater or magical. lol

 

[hottpeper13]

The class clown in me couldn't help it. I was gonna say Galaxy. Zythos is one I enjoyed in an Amber. I have Eldorado and Idaho7 in a Voss IPA that was fantastic. Wonder how they would do alone.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Citra is pretty failsafe, the rest I think are personal preferences and quality that will effect your outcome, well, quality goes for any hop. Smell them before you toss them in. Sabro will throw coconut which I don't care for, galaxy was terrible for a few years but supposedly it's quality it making a comeback. For my hop forward beers I use, citra, nectaron, nelson, strata, mosaic, and simcoe in numerous different ratios and amounts depending on the batch. I've used others as well but these are my most common.

 

[dmtaylor]

Citra is the new world standard, as we all know. It is often paired with Mosaic and/or Simcoe, with or without new varieties with names few of us have ever heard, or even numbers instead of names because they're so new.

I'm a traditionalist so I'll speak more to the traditional hops that can be used to make any pale ale pretty great:

Centennial -- clean lemon and grapefruit citrus
Columbus -- dank, piney, resinous, grapefruit, a little catty
Cascade -- grapefruit all the way
Amarillo -- a sort of orange & tangerine slant in addition to the old grapefruit citrus
Chinook -- kind of like Columbus, piney and a little catty

Others will fill you in more on all the "cool, hip, happenin'" hops. But these older hops can serve as tools that are just as useful as the new ones.

 

[kevin58]

I agree with dmtaylor. I love the traditional American C hops, English hops, and European noble hops.

 

[AlexKay]

Check out HBC 1019 and Krush. Both are potent hops and don’t taste like Son of Citra or something.

Sabro and Simcoe are definitely polarizing hops.

I’m a fan of Strata, too.

 

[fluketamer]

Citra is the new world standard, as we all know. It is often paired with Mosaic and/or Simcoe, with or without new varieties with names few of us have ever heard, or even numbers instead of names because they're so new.

I'm a traditionalist so I'll speak more to the traditional hops that can be used to make any pale ale pretty great:

Centennial -- clean lemon and grapefruit citrus
Columbus -- dank, piney, resinous, grapefruit, a little catty
Cascade -- grapefruit all the way
Amarillo -- a sort of orange & tangerine slant in addition to the old grapefruit citrus
Chinook -- kind of like Columbus, piney and a little catty

Others will fill you in more on all the "cool, hip, happenin'" hops. But these older hops can serve as tools that are just as useful as the new ones.

thanks this is cool.
so by this logic a centenial, cascade, amarillo could also yield really nice citrusy notes without the citra hops that could potentially overpower everything else.

 

[dmtaylor]

thanks this is cool.
so by this logic a centenial, cascade, amarillo could also yield really nice citrusy notes without the citra hops that could potentially overpower everything else.

Yeah you can make great citrusy beer with the old varieties. But one big thing with Citra, and its similars including Simcoe, Mosaic, and Galaxy, is how intensely powerful they are compared with traditional varieties -- where you might only need a little Citra etc. to have an enormous impact on hop flavor and aroma, you need like 3 times as much traditional hops to pack the same wallop. Or conversely, only need 1/3 as much Citra etc. as the older hops to get about the same impact. For whatever reason, these newer hops are super powerful, almost to a fault IMO.

 

[fluketamer]

Yeah you can make great citrusy beer with the old varieties. But one big thing with Citra, and its similars including Simcoe, Mosaic, and Galaxy, is how intensely powerful they are compared with traditional varieties -- where you might only need a little Citra etc. to have an enormous impact on hop flavor and aroma, you need like 3 times as much traditional hops to pack the same wallop. Or conversely, only need 1/3 as much Citra etc. as the older hops to get about the same impact. For whatever reason, these newer hops are super powerful, almost to a fault IMO.

its like the weed they make now.

from a comedian several years ago " i didint know they were working on this stuff like its the cure for cancer"

i imagine you will get a different type of citrus tho from the traditionals then the citra or else whats the point of needing so much hops.
its cheaper and takes up less kettle space to use less citra then a ton of say your other c hops. ?

 

[dmtaylor]

its like the weed they make now.

from a comedian several years ago " i didint know they were working on this stuff like its the cure for cancer"

i imagine you will get a different type of citrus tho from the traditionals then the citra or else whats the point of needing so much hops.
its cheaper and takes up less kettle space to use less citra then a ton of say your other c hops. ?

True. But here are a couple of other considerations:

The best hops are the FREE hops that we grow ourselves. And a lot of these coveted varieties are not allowed to be distributed for sale or purchase. We cannot grow our own Citra yet as far as I know.

Also... if you're going to grow your own... Cascades are the easiest hops to grow of any hop. They grow anywhere in any conditions, super productive every single year, and resistant to pests and diseases. A lot of other hops struggle to grow where Cascade consistently succeeds. But go ahead and try growing others when you can get your hands on them.

If you're just buying all your hops, that's fine, compare prices and intensity and make a judgment. But if you grow your own, then they're basically FREE and you can use as much as you need to. Save a few bucks.

 

[Deric]

are there hops like citra that can really hide a lot of flaws ...

I s'pose "a lot of flaws" is somewhat subjective but I would say NO.

 

[fluketamer]

i am in zone 6 . in nyc. i always assumed it was too cold for me to grow hops here consistently. but it says cascade can do well in 4-9 so 6 seems likely.,
anyone live in the city and grow hops in this climate region ?

 

[scrap iron]

I'm not in NY but am in zone 6. I grow Nugget, Horizon, Mt Hood and Vojvodina and have grown Cascade in the past. I'd try Cascade and any other hardy type like Nugget, Mt Hood etc.
Check out this article.
https://beermaverick.com/the-best-hop-varieties-to-grow-yourself/

 

[fluketamer]

thanks do you use them only for aroma when homegrown, since i imagine its hard to determine the bitterness of homegrown hops. i assume they are lab analyzed to determine the ibu when you buy them from a hbs.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, here in Zone 6B I grew Cascade, Chinook, Centennial and a little Fuggles, for 7 years, and the Chinook always gave the Cascade a run for its money, with the Centennial close behind (and the Fuggles a distant 4th). From year 3 through 7 I was pulling in ~12 pounds of dried cones yearly and brewing a crapton of high IBU IPAs

Cheers!

 

[fluketamer]

oh i forgot to ask, how long after you plant them can you get cones. do you have to wait a few years to get a crop like with a fruit tree or do you get hops the first season?

 

[day_trippr]

I got enough from the first year for a couple of IPAs, much more the 2nd year, then it got crazy productive from there. Harvests started in late August/1st week of September...

Cheers!

 

[dmtaylor]

Expect basically zero hops the first year. Then the second year you will get a full crop, and every year after that.

 

[worlddivides]

I don't think there is such a thing as "cheater hops." But that said, when I read your description, the first hop that came to mind was Citra. I also think the idea of "cheater hops" makes me wonder about the opposite. Hops that are... difficult to use? That taste nasty unless you use them right? Do such things exist? I mean, there's personal taste, but that's about it, right?

I'm a huge fan of Galaxy and I think it goes great with Citra, so I recommend using it. Say Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic. Or Citra, Galaxy, and Simcoe.

In general, you can't go wrong mixing the C hops either. Cascade, Centennial, Columbus, Chinook, Citra, etc.

 

[scrap iron]

thanks do you use them only for aroma when homegrown, since i imagine its hard to determine the bitterness of homegrown hops. i assume they are lab analyzed to determine the ibu when you buy them from a hbs.

I sometimes use Nugget and Vojvodina for bittering and have yet to use Horizon, it's was planted last year. I look up hops AA range and use an average of that range. The hops I use are like 7-8 year old plants and are heathy and produce a good crop. For example, I used Nugget for bittering in a recent IPA and the Vojvodina in a Strong bitter the same way. I use them for aroma and whirlpool hops occasionally. I have five different types so I need to use them.

 

[hottpeper13]

I thought this thread was about hops that make an outstanding beer all by themselves. I make an IPA from the 4 "C" hops dmtaylor has,then sub in citra for the amarillo. I call it 5 Seas IPA. I got a Kolsch on the tail end of fermentation that's all perle hops, we'll see.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

thanks this is cool.
so by this logic a centenial, cascade, amarillo could also yield really nice citrusy notes without the citra hops that could potentially overpower everything else.

I have a 10 gallon blonde ale recipe that only uses 1oz of Centennial and 1oz of Cascade. (Four 1/2 ounce additions)I carried some to a cookout once and was asked if it was an IPA.

 

[bwible]

I was also going to say Simcoe and also Centennial.

What about these cryo hops that are out now? I know they are concentrated to a higher AA%. Do they also pack a bit more flavor?

 

[bwible]

True. But here are a couple of other considerations:

The best hops are the FREE hops that we grow ourselves. And a lot of these coveted varieties are not allowed to be distributed for sale or purchase. We cannot grow our own Citra yet as far as I know.

Also... if you're going to grow your own... Cascades are the easiest hops to grow of any hop. They grow anywhere in any conditions, super productive every single year, and resistant to pests and diseases. A lot of other hops struggle to grow where Cascade consistently succeeds. But go ahead and try growing others when you can get your hands on them.

If you're just buying all your hops, that's fine, compare prices and intensity and make a judgment. But if you grow your own, then they're basically FREE and you can use as much as you need to. Save a few bucks.

I’ve tried growing my own in the past. Had neighbors tell me off, don’t like the way they look. Homeowners association sent a letter.

The big thing with homegrown hops is your AA% varies from year to year and you don’t know what it is. Unless you send them out to be tested. Which would be really expensive and not worth it for the amount you’re going to collect. You can guess within a range, but its going to be just that - a guess. They tell you to buy your bittering hops and you can grow your whirlpool and dry hops. Maybe you can save a few bucks. My wife grows vegetables every year - tomatoes, peppers, garlic, radishes and a few others. Its another hobby, and after everyrhing we spend on it I question if we’re really saving anything.

 

[dmtaylor]

I’ve tried growing my own in the past. Had neighbors tell me off, don’t like the way they look. Homeowners association sent a letter.

Yeesh. Move away to a better neighborhood.

The big thing with homegrown hops is your AA% varies from year to year and you don’t know what it is. Unless you send them out to be tested. Which would be really expensive and not worth it for the amount you’re going to collect. You can guess within a range, but its going to be just that - a guess.

Initial batch with a crop is a little bit of a guess, but it's pretty consistent year to year after some experience. No need to send out to get tested. There are so many ways to overcome this anyway. My favorite is to take a good guess at alpha acid, and then aim to brew an APA. If it turns out too bitter, then it's a session IPA instead of APA. If not bitter enough, then voila, it's a blonde ale or amber ale. No rocket science involved. Brew another batch with the same hops and you'll have a much better idea of the alpha on the second or third try. The following year, start with what you ended up with the previous year. It will most likely be accurate within 0.4% or thereabouts, pretty darn close.

My wife grows vegetables every year - tomatoes, peppers, garlic, radishes and a few others. Its another hobby, and after everyrhing we spend on it I question if we’re really saving anything.

Hops are weeds. They require essentially zero care, maybe some nitrogen (Milorganite) and water but that's it. The hardest part is picking them when ripe in September, takes a few hours, and you'll get tiny scratches on your arms, oh no.

To each his own, but I see hopgrowing as "cheating", when it comes to money, as well as flavor. Don't forget, we also have the capability to pick at the peak of ripeness. Who knows what you're getting when you buy.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, my hops were remarkably level wrt character conveyed, I don't think I ever changed my IPA recipes in the ~6 productive years.

As for care...it is minimal wrt to the actual plants: watering that can be automated as I did, then the occasional feeding, and periodic training and trimming bines. BUT, hops are prone to aphid and especially spider mite attacks which can be devastating and require vigilance and the appropriate weaponry to counter lest a crop be lost. I lost one full crop of Centennial because they were attacked by spider mites while I was off on vacation. By the time I got home they were so riddled with bugs there was no point in harvesting them...

Cheers!

 

[dmtaylor]

fwiw, my hops were remarkably level wrt character conveyed, I don't think I ever changed my IPA recipes in the ~6 productive years.

As for care...it is minimal wrt to the actual plants: watering that can be automated as I did, then the occasional feeding, and periodic training and trimming bines. BUT, hops are prone to aphid and especially spider mite attacks which can be devastating and require vigilance and the appropriate weaponry to counter lest a crop be lost. I lost one full crop of Centennial because they were attacked by spider mites while I was off on vacation. By the time I got home they were so riddled with bugs there was no point in harvesting them...

Cheers!

I planted my hops about 15 years ago. ONE year they got infested with spider mites just as you describe, which destroyed the plants that particular year. But the other ~14 years, no problems at all. YMMV

 

[worlddivides]

I was also going to say Simcoe and also Centennial.

What about these cryo hops that are out now? I know they are concentrated to a higher AA%. Do they also pack a bit more flavor?

They do. I've tried Cryo-Citra and Cryo-Mosaic for dry hopping and whirlpooling (never used them in the boil). And they definitely pack a lot more flavor for the weight. I think they're around 2-3 times more concentrated than T-90 hops. One of the big selling points is that the lupulin is separated at sub-zero temps (hence the name "Cryo"), so there's no chance of vegetal or grassy flavors. The Cryo-Citra was over 22% AA and the Cryo-Mosaic was over 20% AA.