IPA aging. Contradictory Information?

[Strave19]

I'll add my 2cents...

IMO IPA's are better fresh as a standard rule. The less malty, fresher hopped IPA's (Lagunitas IPA, Torpedo, DFH 60min) are definitely better fresh because the majority of the flavor and character comes from their use of hops late in the boil and dry hopping. These beers are really well balanced and delicious, and I would not age one for 6months hoping to improve it because I think it would just kill the hop goodness and muddle the flavor.

An imperial IPA (or maltier IPA-DFH 90min, The maharaja, lots of others - DFH 120min is in a whole other category...barleywiipa) can go either way. The Maharaja (IMO one of the best IIPA's out there) is absolutely delicious fresh. I had a couple of bottles right at release and they were just bursting with fresh hop flavor and aroma...amazingly good. I had a couple more bottles at the end of may/early june (a few months after release) and it was still an amazing beer, still well balanced, but the malt was more pronounced giving a sweeter overall mouthfeel, etc... I still thought it was an amazing IIPA, just different. I think its about what style you prefer, and just what you are in the mood for. Sometimes a fresh, hoppy, aromatic IPA hits the spot, while at other times a good IPA with some more malty balance is just what I need.

Just some thoughts I dont think there is a right or wrong answer, its all in the ingredients, and the balance and time-frame of the particular beer

 

[MuddyMo]

There are a growing number of voices in the craft beer community who feel the relentless race towards the top of the gravity and bitterness scale among commercial and home brewers is not a good trend. (Witness the patter of a 400 Lb Monkey brewer: http://beernews.org/2010/02/left-hand-400-pound-monkey-a-game-changing-ipa) Giving negative reviews for young beers toting three digit IBU's would be one way to act as a counterbalance.

I enjoy many of the commercial beers made with with massive amounts of fresh hops and clearly they are best when young and cheers to anyone who brew using fresh hops at home. Hell, invite me over!

But frozen hop pellets ain't the same thing as fresh hops and while I can tolerate a beer with a grassy finish, I don't prefer them; And I'm sure most people think it tastes nasty, even though they might not be able to admit that to their homebrewing buddy. So, I favor aging a big hop beer, especially before sharing it with friends and family.

 

[maida7]

dude! Most of those great commercial IPA's that you love to drink are also made with pellets. Some are even made with hop extracts. Truth is that there is nothing wrong with pellets. Pellets are more stable and stay fresher longer then whole hops. I trust the flavor from pellet hops much more then what you get from whole hops.

 

[shamrockdoc]

Whole hops may absorb your beer as well when you dry hop ...is this true?

 

[MuddyMo]

dude! Most of those great commercial IPA's that you love to drink are also made with pellets. Some are even made with hop extracts. Truth is that there is nothing wrong with pellets. Pellets are more stable and stay fresher longer then whole hops. I trust the flavor from pellet hops much more then what you get from whole hops.

I believe you have misconstrued my argument.

There is a big flavor difference between whole/pellet hops that are frozen then stored for weeks or months before being used and FRESH hops added to the boil within 24 hours of being picked. Is there not?

In responding to the author of this topic, who is trying to sort out conflicting opinions regarding the aging of highly hopped beers, I contend that while even in a massively FRESH hopped young beer can have a very accessible hop flavor, most people do not find young beers which have been highly hopped using conventional methods very appealing.

 

[maida7]

Whole hops may absorb your beer as well when you dry hop ...is this true?

yes they suck it up like a sponge. If your using large amounts you should make a bigger batch to account for the lost liquid.

 

[maida7]

I believe you have misconstrued my argument.

There is a big flavor difference between whole/pellet hops that are frozen then stored for weeks or months before being used and FRESH hops added to the boil within 24 hours of being picked. Is there not?

In responding to the author of this topic, who is trying to sort out conflicting opinions regarding the aging of highly hopped beers, I contend that while even in a massively FRESH hopped young beer can have a very accessible hop flavor, most people do not find young beers which have been highly hopped using conventional methods very appealing.

Yeah and I'm still not sure what you mean.

I love young beers that have been highly hopped with conventional methods. If you age these beers you will loose a good deal on the hop flavor.

Fresh hops straight off the vine do not have the same effect as those that were properly dried. These fresh picked hops are also called "wet" hops. You'd need to use several times the amount of wet hops to get the level of bitterness. Some of the wet hop beers use several pounds of hops. All that hop matter makes a grassy vegetable flavor. That's my limited experience. I'm not sure what age would do to a "wet" hop beer.

 

[pjj2ba]

Wet hops are simply that - wet, not dried. Wet hops can range from 60-80% water content vs maybe 10-20% for dry, so you have to use more (by weight) to get the same bitterness. Now if one wanted to take the time and measure it it by the hop cone, the number for wet vs dry to get the same bitterness would be the same.

Both whole and pellet hops will absorb a bunch of beer. Whole might "absorb" a bit more, but probably in reality it is the same as pellets, BUT because of the size of the whole hops, you get some beer simply trapped among the cones when transferring. The best would be to use wet hops, as they will absorb less wort since they are already wet - if you care about it.

We had a big outdoor party this weekend and I brought a few folks down to my bar to sample the extra beers I had on tap down there. This included an IPA I had brewed to be at it's peak (in my opinion) around the 1st of May. I think it is still OK, but has lost some of it's character. Well several of the folks where self-admittedly not fans of hoppy beers (I'm not talking BMC drinkers here either). These people all loved the IPA, while the regular IPA drinker, were, yeah, it's OK.

 

[ScubaSteve]

If you want the best of both worlds, then I think you've gotta age the beer for a few months (or age it warmer for a shorter time, like breweries do), then add more hops. A bigger beer like an IPA is not going to be ready in 4 weeks....sorry . You're talking about a beer with 1.060 OG or higher...it's gonna need some time to clean up. There's nothing wrong with dropping a hop ball in later once you're "in zone".

How do I do it? My process is to bulk age longer, like 4-6weeks...I may even dry hop in primary...then as you rack to the keg you add a hop ball. After having it sit for another 2weeks, you're looking at a beer that's aged 2 months or so. Crash cool it and carb it for another week, and you're getting really close to a drinkable age. Technically, this is still pretty young, but definitely not as short as 4 weeks. Keeping it at room temp longer really helps the process. I used to put it in the keezer after 2 weeks, and it took a lot longer to get drinkable.

 

[maida7]

A bigger beer like an IPA is not going to be ready in 4 weeks....sorry .

I disagree. I just made a double IPA and it tasted great 2 weeks out of the fermenter. SG was 1.075 FG was 1.012 ABV was over 8% No hot alcohol flavors.

If you pitch the right amount of healthy yeast and have great control of the fermentation temps you won't need to age the beer. That's been my experience.

 

[pjj2ba]

Well what created the IPA as a style was that the beer seemed to mature much more rapidly than normal on the sea voyage to India, with the bitterness rounding out and mellowing in a fraction of the time it would have taken in a cellar; see Zythophile's most recent post.

I believe the link provided in this quote from another ongoing thread has some good information. The man in the link took two bottles (unfortunately not more) and left one at home and took the other with him while on business in the Mid-East for 3 months to simulate a ship voyage. Afterwards he tasted, and not surprisingly the two beers were very different, yet still both clearly were IPA's.

I like Scuba Steve's idea about aging and THEN dry hopping. This would probably have more rounded malt flavors and a smoother bitterness. Now is this better than dry hoping in a secondary then bottling/kegging and drinking within two week? It depends on your personal tastes. Some will say yes, some will say no. Brew what you like, and don't knock others for liking what they like. Some guys prefer Blondes, some prefer Brunettes, neither is wrong. Being able to have a choice ------- priceless.

 

[ghpeel]

I've used S-04 in two IPAs and found that they really took an extra month or two compared to US-05 to get mellow. So for me, I'll age the English IPAs more than the American ones. And I'd agree with the posters above about aging, then dry hopping. I'll probably age my next English IPA for a month or two in a secondary, then dry hop for a week, then bottle/keg.

 

[usurpers26]

2 weeks out of the fermenter is barely enough time to properly carb it...unless you force carbed. Regardless though, I completely disagree, sorry.

I disagree. I just made a double IPA and it tasted great 2 weeks out of the fermenter. SG was 1.075 FG was 1.012 ABV was over 8% No hot alcohol flavors.

If you pitch the right amount of healthy yeast and have great control of the fermentation temps you won't need to age the beer. That's been my experience.

 

[maida7]

2 weeks out of the fermenter is barely enough time to properly carb it...unless you force carbed. Regardless though, I completely disagree, sorry.

I do force carb. It's mostly carbed in a week. 2 weeks and it's fully carbed.

I'm not lying. if you pitch the proper amount of healthy yeast and do a good job managing your fermentation temps, you beer will taste great straight out of the fermenter. You'd have to taste it to believe me. If you start the ferment cool you should not have any harsh alcohols.

Some high gravity beers do get better with age but not a hop flavored style like IPA. Drink Fresh!

 

[ghpeel]

Maybe its a personal preference thing? I've just now got a fermentation fridge, so the next time I do an English IPA (I wanna clone Sam Smith IPA...yum) I'll keep it in the low 60's and see if its better sooner.

 

[maida7]

Maybe its a personal preference thing? I've just now got a fermentation fridge, so the next time I do an English IPA (I wanna clone Sam Smith IPA...yum) I'll keep it in the low 60's and see if its better sooner.

start cool to control the harsh alcohol and esters. BUT finish warmer. This is very important with English strains (and to a degree all ale yeasts). Warm things up a few degrees at the end of activity to keep the yeast from going to sleep. This will help get full attenuation and it gives the yeast time to clean up the diacetyl. English strains are know to produce lots of diacetyl.

Sam smith is know for it's buttery diacetyl flavor so you may play around with the temps and brew it a few different ways till you clone it.

 

[usurpers26]

Still disagree, even moreso with your last statement about high gravity. Too many people think you lose that much hop flavor over time...we just don't taste that in our IPAs. Yes, younger, they are much more sharp and astringent but that's not what we're shooting for.

We always pitch properly and our temp control is awesome.

Your opinion is surely valid, I'm not trying to say otherwise.

I do force carb. It's mostly carbed in a week. 2 weeks and it's fully carbed.

I'm not lying. if you pitch the proper amount of healthy yeast and do a good job managing your fermentation temps, you beer will taste great straight out of the fermenter. You'd have to taste it to believe me. If you start the ferment cool you should not have any harsh alcohols.

Some high gravity beers do get better with age but not a hop flavored style like IPA. Drink Fresh!

 

[maida7]

It's not so much the bitterness that you lose over time. It's the hop flavor and aroma. Within a month the hop flavor and aroma are reduced significantly. Brew the same beer 3 months apart and taste a fresh one VS a 3 month old one. Do the test blind and see which one you like more. See which one has more hop flavor and which has more malt flavor. I prefer the fresh beer. That's a personal preference.

If your fresh beer has an hot alcohol flavor then try pitching cooler and keeping the ferment cooler for at least the first 48 hours. This initial phase of fermentation has a big impact on the alcohol flavor. Give it a try and see what happens.

 

[warriorpoet]

You guys are really talking apples/oranges...an English IPA is similar but in no way like a Western IPA. The English has a bigger malt backbone and is smoother. The Western is more up-front hops with a balanced but not overly forward malt. So, you are both right!
I prefer my IPA's and Double IPA's to be Western, but that is what I want...not a competition judging parameter.

 

[rayg]

It's not so much the bitterness that you lose over time. It's the hop flavor and aroma. Within a month the hop flavor and aroma are reduced significantly. Brew the same beer 3 months apart and taste a fresh one VS a 3 month old one. Do the test blind and see which one you like more. See which one has more hop flavor and which has more malt flavor. I prefer the fresh beer. That's a personal preference.

I don't think it takes even that long. The difference between one week
after bottling and 5 weeks is huge.

Ray

 

[chri5]

The way i handle my IIPAs is three weeks in primary, then straight to kegging with the dry hops in the keg. Force carb and start drinking in a week. It really hits its stride in about three weeks after it is kegged and doesn't usually last past six to seven weeks.

 

[gerbache]

I also prefer my IPAs as soon as I can get them kegged and (mostly) carbed. My usual pattern for them is two weeks in the primary, then a week of lots of dry hopping, then into the fridge it goes. I usually give them a bit of a shake to help speed up the carbing, but it's only a few days before I start drinking them, and I think they hit the peak at about a month after the brew day and start to fade from there.

I do my IPAs in a definite west coast style, with lots of late hop additions. My experience has been that after about 2 or 3 months, they're still pretty good, but missing that "something" that makes them really spectacular before.