Interesting German Brewing PDF

[schematix]

Yes it does, but it seems oxygen on the cold side does not have the large effects on beer as it does on the hot side

wow you've turned my whole world upside down

 

[Jwin]

They are pretty clear the glasses were compensating too quickly, here is the LODO after filtering to a serving keg

Yes it does, but it seems oxygen on the cold side does not have the large effects on beer as it does on the hot side

And the 2017 Webby for Best Internet Troll goes too....
:Smack:

 

[CRUNK]

I posted these at the request of a member on a different forum, I didn't mean to stir up bad feelings or controversy. Happy brewing have a nice day.

 

[TexasWine]

And the 2017 Webby for Best Internet Troll goes too....
:Smack:

@Jwin, I'm confident @CRUNK is not trolling. Just sharing their experience. I'm one of those who asked him/her to share the photos on this thread. I thought it informative.

With that, I don't necessarily agree with the statement that O2 exposure on the cold side isn't as detrimental as hot side. It is just as detrimental, if not more, but just slower to rear its ugly head.

 

[Jwin]

It was all in fun. Not being serious at all


Up until the o2/filtering post, crunk has what was probably the best posts in pages, the Yuge left turn 😁

 

[stpug]

Picture of two jars of 1056 yeast collected from a blonde ale a little over 7 weeks ago; both were initially filled to nearly the brim.
The only difference between the two is the amount of headspace/oxygen in the jars.
Jar on the left has never been opened; jar on right was opened once to remove 3 spoonfuls of yeast about 7 weeks ago.



BTW, those pickle slices are really, really old

 

[TexasWine]

Picture of two jars of 1056 yeast collected from a blonde ale a little over 7 weeks ago; both were initially filled to nearly the brim.
The only difference between the two is the amount of headspace/oxygen in the jars.
Jar on the left has never been opened; jar on right was opened once to remove 3 spoonfuls of yeast about 7 weeks ago.

View attachment 398823

BTW, those pickle slices are really, really old

Incredible!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Incredible!

Yeah I know - who keeps pickles THAT long?!?!?

 

[stpug]

Yeah I know - who keeps pickles THAT long?!?!?

Totally

 

[TexasWine]

I was asked to post this here

Left glass lodo helles, right glass non lodo helles, both used wlp830, identical recipe, grits, water was distilled then built up to match within 3ppm, same fermenting temps, same mash schedule, the whole ball of wax.

Left 6 weeks lagering
Right 8 weeks lagering

Neither one has been filtered yet, I am picking up 2 serving kegs tomorrow

Lodo has pleasant hops nose a little low for my preference, nice bread notes, smooth mouth feel, just dry enough to easily put 3 of these down quick fast and in a hurry.

The lodo required NO acid additions what so ever, the non LODO required acid in the mash to lower the ph to the preferred level. As I haven't built my sourgut reactor yet, that coming after I return from vacation in 2 weeks.

Just for clarity, exactly what different methods were used between the two? Was the only difference on the hot side? Did you spund both beers? Etc.

 

[CRUNK]

I did everything identical it was my own test to see whether lodo makes the difference in my opinion, I wasn't convinced by reading or videos alone. Both were spunded side by side in the same chamber same pressure same mash schedule and temps tested with 3 different thermometer ph was kept within general level between 5.4 and 5.6 water profile started with distilled and was within 3 ppm across the board. I was quite anal in this comparison more so than I would on a normal brewday.

The only thing I didn't do is filter the non LODO, because when I filtered the LODO it stripped more flavor than I preferred as both taste wonderful I chose to save a filter

These won't last long in my house, and a blind taste test is being done friday night against 2 purchased beers.

Here is my final post about this test that I placed on my usual forums, but I am always around to answer questions


I'm new to brewing, only 10 batches (The first 7 have been dumped) i never brewed a day in my life till i decided to quit smoking, i knew i needed something to keep me busy. I have alot to learn but i have made a fair investment to a hobby i really enjoy.

This video shows batches 8 and 9 side by side comparison left is batch 9 (lodo) right is batch 8 ( non lodo)

Batch 9 I filtered batch 8 is not because I lost a noticeable amount of flavor, the video is taken while the beer is at 38°f

I'm convinced lodo makes a worth while difference, and I'm glad I was directed to this site early in my learning process, before any bad habits were formed.

I just had a friend do a blind taste test, he chose the LODO as the beer he preferred.

Needless to say I have 10 gallons of beer in kegs, and another 5 in a fermentor ready to transfer to a keg. They will not last long.

My final test for me was to stand my lodo up next to a whienstefaner original premium I purchased, and the flavor of my LODO is so close that I am happy and have to give my gratitude to all of you who helped guide me along the way, and all the efforts you all have made to clear the path to happiness.

Here's the link to the short 1 minute video

https://youtu.be/aXxAFEeQAM0

 

[Tiber_Brew]

😀

Laugh it up

 

[rabeb25]

For those interested, I was asked to brew some beer for Brewtroller for the National Homebrew Convention. They will be serving the beer (pale ale) on Friday, from 11-3 (or until gone) by special request.
I know it tasted alright last night, but who knows what will happen to it from now until Friday! Here's to hoping for the best.
Just ask for it by using my name.
(This is a low oxygen beer of course )

 

[Spartan1979]

For those interested, I was asked to brew some beer for Brewtroller for the National Homebrew Convention. They will be serving the beer (pale ale) on Friday, from 11-3 (or until gone) by special request.
I know it tasted alright last night, but who knows what will happen to it from now until Friday! Here's to hoping for the best.
Just ask for it by using my name.
(This is a low oxygen beer of course )

I wish I had seen this before Homebrew Con. Oh well.

 

[beersk]

For those interested, I was asked to brew some beer for Brewtroller for the National Homebrew Convention. They will be serving the beer (pale ale) on Friday, from 11-3 (or until gone) by special request.
I know it tasted alright last night, but who knows what will happen to it from now until Friday! Here's to hoping for the best.
Just ask for it by using my name.
(This is a low oxygen beer of course )

Have you heard how it was received? Really wish I could've made it up there this year.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I gave a heads up to my friend who was there, and he said they ended up not serving the beer HBCon.

 

[rabeb25]

I gave a heads up to my friend who was there, and he said they ended up not serving the beer HBCon.

Welllll. I was all set to deliver the beer on Tuesday. I found out last minute that there was no cold storage for a day or so and my beer would have to sit in a trailer in the heat(high 90's heat index) until then. I chose to not bring it down until cooler space was available, but then I got stuck at work.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Welllll. I was all set to deliver the beer on Tuesday. I found out last minute that there was no cold storage for a day or so and my beer would have to sit in a trailer in the heat(high 90's heat index) until then. I chose to not bring it down until cooler space was available, but then I got stuck at work.

Understandable. I would've done the same.

 

[Jwin]

Well, I underlet my mash for the first time today
90 minutes later, my first stuck mash. 1.3+ qt/#
Stirred well, but not hard after all the strike water was in there
Dozens of batches on this system and never a stuck mash.
I'll be investing in a brew bag for the cooler for sure. $50 or so is worth never dealing with this again

 

[schematix]

Well, I underlet my mash for the first time today
90 minutes later, my first stuck mash. 1.3+ qt/#
Stirred well, but not hard after all the strike water was in there
Dozens of batches on this system and never a stuck mash.
I'll be investing in a brew bag for the cooler for sure. $50 or so is worth never dealing with this again

What else did you do differently? Any mill changes? Grain conditioning? Different base malt? Different quantity? What has your normal process been?

The underlet process itself is not likely to be the culprit.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]The underlet process itself is not likely to be the culprit.

Agreed. When I switched to underletting there was zero effect wrt recirculation rates through the grain bed...

Cheers!

 

[Jwin]

Same mill setting
It was a fairly large grain bill, mostly 2row. No wheat or oats.
After wrestling with it, it seems that it caused some compaction in my tun at entrance/exit. Better design wouldn't cause it to happen in the future.
Just funny that I was on point to have my best near LoDO batch execution to date, which transpired in me dumping buckets of hot wort into my kettle. Guess I'll have to take care of my lautering system first

 

[schematix]

Same mill setting
It was a fairly large grain bill, mostly 2row. No wheat or oats.
After wrestling with it, it seems that it caused some compaction in my tun at entrance/exit. Better design wouldn't cause it to happen in the future.
Just funny that I was on point to have my best near LoDO batch execution to date, which transpired in me dumping buckets of hot wort into my kettle. Guess I'll have to take care of my lautering system first

Recently when i started to push my system to its limits in terms of batch size i found that my mash tun will hit a point where the grain bed is so deep that it can't recirculate without becoming stuck. Ultra slow recirculating rates resolve the issue, but then it takes half an hour to step, which sucks.

For an idea of what i'm dealing with... when i max my system that puts approx 33lbs of grain into a 15G boiler maker MLT, which gives approx 16" of wet, lightly compacted grain bed. As the bed settles all that pump suction tries to pull through the bed, and when it encounters resistance towards the top, the bed below ends up taking the brunt of it, leading to compaction.

 

[Jwin]

Recently when i started to push my system to its limits in terms of batch size i found that my mash tun will hit a point where the grain bed is so deep that it can't recirculate without becoming stuck. Ultra slow recirculating rates resolve the issue, but then it takes half an hour to step, which sucks.

For an idea of what i'm dealing with... when i max my system that puts approx 33lbs of grain into a 15G boiler maker MLT, which gives approx 16" of wet, lightly compacted grain bed. As the bed settles all that pump suction tries to pull through the bed, and when it encounters resistance towards the top, the bed below ends up taking the brunt of it, leading to compaction.

This was a ~40# grain bill
I've had as high as a 60# with 15# wheat in my tun(35g Coleman extreme). I'm just gonna have to invest in a proper manifold and possibly a brew bag, wilser bag. I have successfully recirculated before and never had a stuck mash. I think that the combination of some some compaction at the tun exit , a undersized filtering system(12 in bazooka screen wrapped with paint strainer bag) caused the compaction to get even worse when I started recirculating. I'll continue dwn the road with it, but will have to adjust/fix the system first. Again, not an issue with method or execution, I think it's entirely system related. Thanks all for the feedback.
Btw, if anyone successfully uses a similar MT(huge cooler), and a wilser bag, what drainage system has worked well for you? Was thinking just a 3 pipe cpvc system or a combination of cpvc and reinforced silicon tubing.

 

[markstache]

Btw, if anyone successfully uses a similar MT(huge cooler), and a wilser bag, what drainage system has worked well for you? Was thinking just a 3 pipe cpvc system or a combination of cpvc and reinforced silicon tubing.

While not as big as your system, I have a 70qt Coleman and a bag. I found the bag was getting pulled into the intake, causing issues during recirc. I took a 2" pvc pipe the length of the cooler and cut it in half. The I drilled holes in it. It looks like swiss cheese. The half-pipe sits over the intake and runs the length of the cooler to provide a channel. The bag sits on top and provides a filter. I do a lot of wheat beers and have only had one stuck sparge with it. And even there, all I had to do was lift the bag.

 

[mabrungard]

As the bed settles all that pump suction tries to pull through the bed, and when it encounters resistance towards the top, the bed below ends up taking the brunt of it, leading to compaction.

Pumps can pull a lot of vacuum. With a good impeller, some brewery pumps might be able to pull about 20 feet of head on the suction side. That suction imposes a HUGE load on the grain bed.

Brewers of old found out a long time ago that limiting the suction head on the outlet of the tun helps prevent compaction. I'm sure that most of you have seen those gooseneck faucets on the outlet of old mash tuns. Those upturned outlets help prevent placing too much suction head on the grain bed during runoff. I've used the same philosophy in my tun and have a simple manometer (sightglass) plumbed into the bottom of my tun. When I'm pumping my RIMS, I'm throttling the pump discharge so that the head at the bottom of my tun doesn't get any lower than the bottom of the tun. That means that I'm limiting the pressure drop across my bed to the depth of the bed (say 1 to 1.5 ft, instead of adding another 20 ft to it).

So you should be able to see that we do need to monitor and control the head placed on the grainbed by controlling amount of flow through the grainbed. Running a pump wide-open is much more likely to impose a high suction head that will compress the bed. Install a manometer at the bottom of your tun and you'll know what flowrate your bed can handle.

PS: The permeability of a grainbed changes during the mash. It's initially somewhat permeable at the start of pumping, but compacts a bit and the flow has to be reduced. But as the extract is pulled from the grain into the wort, the permeability increases and you can increase the flowrate later in the mash.

 

[Jwin]

While not as big as your system, I have a 70qt Coleman and a bag. I found the bag was getting pulled into the intake, causing issues during recirc. I took a 2" pvc pipe the length of the cooler and cut it in half. The I drilled holes in it. It looks like swiss cheese. The half-pipe sits over the intake and runs the length of the cooler to provide a channel. The bag sits on top and provides a filter. I do a lot of wheat beers and have only had one stuck sparge with it. And even there, all I had to do was lift the bag.

Yea, I was thinking of something similar. Wonder about even just making a fully sealed(less things that I can't see to clean) cpvc structure, just to lift the bag enough to drain. Also thought about a large cutting board(or two) trimmed to rest just above the bottom with half inch holes in it.

 

[1MadScientist]

............. I've used the same philosophy in my tun and have a simple manometer (sightglass) plumbed into the bottom of my tun. When I'm pumping my RIMS, I'm throttling the pump discharge so that the head at the bottom of my tun doesn't get any lower than the bottom of the tun. That means that I'm limiting the pressure drop across my bed to the depth of the bed (say 1 to 1.5 ft, instead of adding another 20 ft to it).

So you should be able to see that we do need to monitor and control the head placed on the grainbed by controlling amount of flow through the grainbed. Running a pump wide-open is much more likely to impose a high suction head that will compress the bed. Install a manometer at the bottom of your tun and you'll know what flowrate your bed can handle.

I assume here that your sightglass is plumbed into a "shared port" as your pump? Are you saying that you limit the level in the sightglass to no lower than the grain bed height?

 

[Bilsch]

Recently when i started to push my system to its limits in terms of batch size i found that my mash tun will hit a point where the grain bed is so deep that it can't recirculate without becoming stuck. Ultra slow recirculating rates resolve the issue, but then it takes half an hour to step, which sucks.

I also had a lot of issues in the past with compaction and flow restriction through the grain bed. But just slowing down my mill speed made a big difference in crush and cured the problem.

 

[mabrungard]

I assume here that your sightglass is plumbed into a "shared port" as your pump? Are you saying that you limit the level in the sightglass to no lower than the grain bed height?

No. The head level in the pump intake pipe would be too low. In addition, it doesn't reflect what the head level at the bottom of the grain bed is. My tun has a separate port tapped into the bottom of the tun.

Yes, the fluid level in the sightglass is not allowed to drop below the bottom of the bed. One reason is that if the level is dropped too low, it would suck air into the bed. That wouldn't be good.