Instant chill method

[Barley_Bob]

I figured this out a year or two ago, and I've been doing it ever since. It works great for me, and I definitely recommend it. If it doesn't work for you, that's okay.

I will say, that it is super fast and cheap. I haven't had an infected batch, and honestly, my beer is better.

Anyway, here it is:

Step 1: Grab your copper coil chiller.
Step 2: Give it to a friend you don't like.
Step 3: Grab yourself a bag of ice from the store. (It even says on the bag "healthier than homemade"!)

Step 4: Pour the ice in your fermenter (that isn't made of glass).

Step 5: Pour your hot wort directly into the fermenter.


Step 6: Add your yeast directly from the fridge to the now ice cold wort.
(Oops too much ice. Oh well. I have bigger problems in life)


And that's it. You're done.

Additional thoughts:
1. When I brew, I use RO water from the grocery store, and I've been using that to top off when needed for years without causing infections. I just don't see how a bag of RO ice is less sanitary.

2. I really do think it makes better beer. Because the fermentation starts so slow and cold, I never have to worry about it throwing esthers at the start. I have actually left fermenters alone in a hot apartment in the summer with no ill effects. Most of the fermentation is happening when it's real cold.

3. I do worry about it taking longer to ferment and about diacetyl, so I leave it in the fermenter longer. I don't know if it's necessary. But I do it.

4. I came up with this because I've always been looking for ways cheaply and efficiently. For years, I would just let my wort cool overnight to ambient temp. Beer is really resilient, and that's a legit method too. I saw the bag of ice in my freezer and it clicked.

5. When I pour the wort into the fermenter, I do just grab the whole kettle and pour. That's not super safe. I pray first. You definitely could ladle it in or run it through a tube to be safe. Please don't burn yourself.


That's it guys. Good luck. Try it out if you think it'll help.

 

[Dland]

Sound like a good solution for you, and it may well be a good one for others. I'll keep it in mind as an alternative, if I'm ever brewing without my current circumstances.

A couple of reasons I'll likely not try it though;

If one is going for a higher or even moderate ABV, one would have to go though the effort of making higher gravity wort to offset the dilution.

I worked in a commercial ice plant for about 4 months, a long time ago. While I would say the ice we made likely did not make anyone sick, I would not bet my wort on its lack of random contaminants, or course your ice may vary.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

And you've watered down and possibly infected your hard earned brew... Remember ice has nucleation areas on the surface. Think of soda poured over ice.

What is the expected OG? What was the OG after dumping in the ice?

How long does the resulting brew last without getting "old"?

Just curious.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Sound like a good solution for you, and it may well be a good one for others. I'll keep it in mind as an alternative, if I'm ever brewing without my current circumstances.

A couple of reasons I'll likely not try it though;

If one is going for a higher or even moderate ABV, one would have to go though the effort of making higher gravity wort to offset the dilution.

I worked in a commercial ice plant for about 4 months, a long time ago. While I would say the ice we made likely did not make anyone sick, I would not bet my wort on its lack of random contaminants, or course your ice may vary.

I used to run a grain elevator. I promise, it's gross.

 

[Barley_Bob]

And you've watered down and possibly infected your hard earned brew... Remember ice has nucleation areas on the surface. Thing of soda poured over ice.

What is the expected OG? What was the OG after dumping in the ice?

How long does the resulting brew last without getting "old"?

Just curious.

I make sure my volume post-boil is less than my desired final volume. A gallon of water is 8 pounds. That's a 5 pound bag of ice, which is 5/8ths of a gallon if you want to be really exact.

Whatever brewing calculator you're using will let you plug in pre-boil, post-boil, and final volume values. You can get your gravity readings and your ibus where you want them.

I did use too much ice in this batch. What can I say? Chill and be chill.

I don't know when the beer gets "old". I know my beer is good. And like I said, I think it's better.

I've been doing this a long time and I haven't had an infection.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

If doing a concentrated boil, then adding the ice is expected. If not doing a concentrated boil then the OG is not as expected.

 

[Barley_Bob]

If doing a concentrated boil, then adding the ice is expected. If not doing a concentrated boil then the OG is not as expected.

Sounds like you're ready to go

 

[Dland]

I used to run a grain elevator. I promise, it's gross.

Most food processing would be some degree, especially to those who only see it in the store. The difference here is the grain component gets boiled (at least the way I do it) but the ice has no sanitation process.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Most food processing would be some degree, especially to those who only see it in the store. The differnece here is the grain component gets boiled (at laest the way I do it) but the ice has no sanitation process.

I haven't worked in a plant making ice. But I don't know what to tell you. I'm sure it's not perfect. I'm also sure that starsan doesn't get every single cell of every organism in my equipment every time.

I haven't had an infected batch since I made the switch yet.

 

[Dland]

Like I said, sound like a good solution for you.

I usually do a step chilling, will not bore w details, but allows for controlled temp post boil hop additions, as well as pitch within less than an hour after boil is turned off.

 

[khannon]

To sanitize my ice, I just boil it before adding it to cool my wort...

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

To sanitize my ice, I just boil it before adding it to cool my wort...

I prefer freshly fallen snow that's quickly boiled.

 

[estricklin]

I like this solution, it would certainly be a good technique for brewers who cannot use an immersion chiller for some reason, or don't own one.

I will say, if you use a pump while you run your immersion chiller, the cooling process speeds up significantly. Running my pump I can cool in 10 minutes or so. A lot of people just stick the immersion cooler in and let it run, takes wayyyyyyyy longer that way.

There's no reason to always accept the status quo, trying new things for yourself is what this hobby is about, and sharing the results is what this forum is about. Cheers my friend.

 

[Pkrd]

Skip the middle man and use dry ice. The yeasties will surely feel more at home in a CO2 environment?

 

[Beermeister32]

Couple issues as I see it - ice bags can harbor contaminants which can infect beer - people dragging those bags around in the chiller getting little holes in the bags, then you set it in a shopping cart where some kid's diaper has been.

Secondly, plastic and glass fermenters should not be exposed to wort that hot. Plastics can break down and leach at elevated temperatures. Glass can break.

If you really need to do this, some people top up their fermentors with pre-boiled water stored in jugs and chilled down to 34F or so. You can also use chilled distilled water without much worries. Make sure to spray and wipe down the jugs and jug mouths with Star San solution.

 

[BQ&W]

What can I say? Chill and be chill.

RDWHAH!

 

[Barley_Bob]

I like this solution, it would certainly be a good technique for brewers who cannot use an immersion chiller for some reason, or don't own one.

I will say, if you use a pump while you run your immersion chiller, the cooling process speeds up significantly. Running my pump I can cool in 10 minutes or so. A lot of people just stick the immersion cooler in and let it run, takes wayyyyyyyy longer that way.

There's no reason to always accept the status quo, trying new things for yourself is what this hobby is about, and sharing the results is what this forum is about. Cheers my friend.

Thanks for the support, haha.

I know there are some great engineered solutions, like your immersion chiller that runs on a pump. I'm sure yours is excellent (and really cool (see what I did there)).

Ultimately it's a hobby... I know a lot of folks have fun designing processes and investing in equipment. My goal is to do things as cheaply (and easily and quickly) as possible. I came up with this while I was in an apartment and pretty space and resource limited. This is super fast and cheap.

But I'm not trying to dissuade someone from building a really cool rig. Rather, this an impossibly simple solution for the guy looking to shorten the brew day on a shoestring budget.

I appreciate the kind words!

 

[Jag75]

Its kind of what I did when I started brewing using extract kits . Except I used chilled bottled RO water to add to the hot wort .

 

[ajsboarder]

I used ice when doing extract brewing, was a great way to finish the brew day quickly, and no chilling method can cool it as quickly as pouring it on ice, so you get a great cold break. My friend showed me this method, I believe he got it from a class that Sam Adams had, though I could be mistaken there. He did this for 10+ years, and I did for 1 year, without issues.

Now I use an oversized plate chiller with ice water.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Couple issues as I see it - ice bags can harbor contaminants which can infect beer - people dragging those bags around in the chiller getting little holes in the bags, then you set it in a shopping cart where some kid's diaper has been.

Asking if there are contaminants in the ice is the wrong question. There are. There are also contaminants in RO bought from the store, in the water from your faucet, in water you boil and leave on the stove to cool, and in all your brewing equipment.

Assuming these contaminants can infect your batch, what matters more is their frequency (or parts per million). Most of our batches don't become infected because the small amount of contaminants are overwhelmed in the brewing process by yeast, alcohol, and hops.

Adding ice to the process adds some risk. No question. Does it add more risk than hoses, pumps, and coils? I'm not so sure.

Note: If you're worried about some kid's diaper in your shopping cart, I suggest you focus more on the cilantro or fresh apples you're putting in it.

Secondly, plastic and glass fermenters should not be exposed to wort that hot. Plastics can break down and leach at elevated temperatures. Glass can break.

I say right upfront not to use glass - a note to everyone reading this thread: Don't do this with glass.

It seems reasonable that more plastic would leach in hot wort than in cool wort. I have no idea how much more or at what point that becomes unsafe. If you're running hot wort through a pump and a plastic tube, is that better or worse?

I can tell you that the hot wort I pour over ice immediately turns to slush.

If you really need to do this, some people top up their fermentors with pre-boiled water stored in jugs and chilled down to 34F or so. You can also use chilled distilled water without much worries. Make sure to spray and wipe down the jugs and jug mouths with Star San solution.

I've done this for years. It's a solid practice... that's less efficient, less effective, and requires more space than ice.

Further, when you buy a jug of distilled or RO water from the store, you have no idea what was in that jug before the water went in. You have no idea what kind of system that water came out of or how clean it was. Is a clean bag full of ice from the store better or worse than a clean jug of water from the store? My guess is that it's about the same.


Look, I just don't see how the risk is higher. And if it is, it just logically cannot be a remotely noticeable difference.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I used ice when doing extract brewing, was a great way to finish the brew day quickly, and no chilling method can cool it as quickly as pouring it on ice, so you get a great cold break. My friend showed me this method, I believe he got it from a class that Sam Adams had, though I could be mistaken there. He did this for 10+ years, and I did for 1 year, without issues.

Now I use an oversized plate chiller with ice water.

I'm not at all shocked that someone else did this first. There's a lot of smart people out there. Just sharing my experience. Nice to hear it worked well for you and your friend.

 

[Beermeister32]

Looks like I hit a nerve. Hey - I haven't put apples and cilantro on the cart for years! Look, I'm not saying you can't do it. We've all done a lot of different procedures, heck I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there shoveled snow into their bucket prior to dumping it in.

All I'm saying is this audience is for a lot of people out there with varying skill sets and sanitation awareness. I think we need to discuss the pros and cons to all procedures and pointing out the problem areas is how we do it. Anecdotally, you may not have problems. Then along comes another who does. One thing's for sure, you will make beer!

 

[Jim R]

Further, when you buy a jug of distilled or RO water from the store, you have no idea what was in that jug before the water went in. You have no idea what kind of system that water came out of or how clean it was. Is a clean bag full of ice from the store better or worse than a clean jug of water from the store? My guess is that it's about the same.

That is why most of us boil it for an hour before it goes into the fermenter.

 

[Bobby_M]

When I teach beginner classes that focus on Extract brewing, I've always suggested sanitizing chinese takeout soup containers and filling with distilled water to make a couple gallons of sanitary ice cubes. That is a lot more sanitary than bagged ice. It can be added directly to the kettle to drop the wort temps before moving it to a temp sensitive fermenter.

Ultimately it stops being practical when you switch over to all grain brewing because we're no longer reconstituting concentrated wort.

 

[Barley_Bob]

That is why most of us boil it for an hour before it goes into the fermenter.

Topping off with distilled water is a common practice.

 

[Barley_Bob]

When I teach beginner classes that focus on Extract brewing, I've always suggested sanitizing chinese takeout soup containers and filling with distilled water to make a couple gallons of sanitary ice cubes. That is a lot more sanitary than bagged ice. It can be added directly to the kettle to drop the wort temps before moving it to a temp sensitive fermenter.

Ultimately it stops being practical when you switch over to all grain brewing because we're no longer reconstituting concentrated wort.

I like this suggestion. I suppose someone could take a one gallon container, fill it with RO, put it in the freezer, and then drop the ice in the bucket or kettle. There's no reason it can't scale.

I would challenge the assumption that the bagged ice is less sanitary. That's speculation.

 

[Beermeister32]

 

[khannon]

That is why most of us boil it for an hour before it goes into the fermenter.

Some of us boil for isomerization..

 

[Barley_Bob]

Looks like I hit a nerve. Hey - I haven't put apples and cilantro on the cart for years! Look, I'm not saying you can't do it. We've all done a lot of different procedures, heck I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there shoveled snow into their bucket prior to dumping it in.

I mean... maybe a bit. And I kid you not, threads about brewing with snow come up every winter. That's a little too daring for me.

All I'm saying is this audience is for a lot of people out there with varying skill sets and sanitation awareness. I think we need to discuss the pros and cons to all procedures and pointing out the problem areas is how we do it. Anecdotally, you may not have problems. Then along comes another who does. One thing's for sure, you will make beer!

Discussing pros and cons is fine, and I appreciate the skepticism. I think we should be just as skeptical of the things we've come to believe are safe and normal (like the purity of water from the store or the perfect dependability of star san). Healthy skepticism enables innovation.

You're right, my results are anecdotal. I suppose I can come back to this thread after every batch. A dozen attempts without an infection, will qualify for statistical significance. It's not hard to prove. Just time consuming.

 

[Jag75]

Just don't use the yellow snow . Its probably high in chloride and sodium

 

[electricsailor]

I got a better way. I must be an eletrrical genius. I take the electrical plug from my microwave, unplug it, turn the plug around. Now the electricity is flowing the other direction. My micro wave now makes the wort cold.

 

[Bobby_M]

I like this suggestion. I suppose someone could take a one gallon container, fill it with RO, put it in the freezer, and then drop the ice in the bucket or kettle. There's no reason it can't scale.

I would challenge the assumption that the bagged ice is less sanitary. That's speculation.

You don't want the chunks of ice too be too large or they won't melt fast enough to chill down quickly.

I'll say it another way. I KNOW that my ice is quite sanitary but you don't KNOW that commercially bagged ice is sanitary. You have no idea what the facility looks like. You can't be sure there are no holes in the bag, etc. I'm not trying to convince you to stop doing anything.

 

[khannon]

You don't want the chunks of ice too be too large or they won't melt fast enough to chill down quickly.

I'll say it another way. I KNOW that my ice is quite sanitary but you don't KNOW that commercially bagged ice is sanitary. You have no idea what the facility looks like. You can't be sure there are no holes in the bag, etc. I'm not trying to convince you to stop doing anything.

Bobby, would that be ice-holes in the bag?

 

[ajsboarder]

I'm not at all shocked that someone else did this first. There's a lot of smart people out there. Just sharing my experience. Nice to hear it worked well for you and your friend.

Sorry, didn’t mean to come across as saying someone else did it first, just qualifying my experience with it as well.

 

[Barley_Bob]

You don't want the chunks of ice too be too large or they won't melt fast enough to chill down quickly.

I'll say it another way. I KNOW that my ice is quite sanitary but you don't KNOW that commercially bagged ice is sanitary. You have no idea what the facility looks like. You can't be sure there are no holes in the bag, etc. I'm not trying to convince you to stop doing anything.

You're right. My broader point on the subject is just that we also don't know what kind of condition the water from the store is in, but we accept that it's 100% problem free without question. We don't know what that facility (or the total supply chain) look like either.

I do think/believe/suspect that the bagged ice is less sanitary than bottled water or RO out of the filter at the grocery store. However, I also think that the actual difference is very small and that if there is a statistically significant difference, it's not enough to impact the brewing process. A significant difference does not mean it changes the result.

Many of the practices that we've adopted as safe and normal are simply dogma. For the homebrewer, perfection is not the elimination of all risk - it's achieving a desirable result.

My anecdotal evidence through a dozen or so batches is that it's not causing infections. It is accelerating my brew day tremendously at a very very low cost. The cost of a really nice wort chiller will never be as low as bagged ice, even over many batches. Thus, I view this as a legitimate practice that should be shared.

EDIT: Sorry - To your first point, one of the great things about the bagged ice is the high surface area. It makes it super fast. But if someone wanted a safer option and cared less about a good cold break, then a clean block of ice would be a good option. I appreciate you bringing it up.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Sorry, didn’t mean to come across as saying someone else did it first, just qualifying my experience with it as well.

Oh, you're all good. I knew I wouldn't be the only person doing this. I'm glad you chimed in!

 

[Barley_Bob]

Bobby, would that be ice-holes in the bag?

Sure. If my batches come out infection free, does it matter?

 

[khannon]

Sure. If my batches come out infection free, does it matter?

Chill however you like, it's your beer. This method seems fine to me as long as the ice is clean. I was more referencing the movie Johnny Dangerously, but only doing so "Once".

 

[BQ&W]

"Once!"

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

You're right. My broader point on the subject is just that we also don't know what kind of condition the water from the store is in, but we accept that it's 100% problem free without question. We don't know what that facility (or the total supply chain) look like either.

I do think/believe/suspect that the bagged ice is less sanitary than bottled water or RO out of the filter at the grocery store. However, I also think that the actual difference is very small and that if there is a statistically significant difference, it's not enough to impact the brewing process. A significant difference does not mean it changes the result.

Many of the practices that we've adopted as safe and normal are simply dogma. For the homebrewer, perfection is not the elimination of all risk - it's achieving a desirable result.

My anecdotal evidence through a dozen or so batches is that it's not causing infections. It is accelerating my brew day tremendously at a very very low cost. The cost of a really nice wort chiller will never be as low as bagged ice, even over many batches. Thus, I view this as a legitimate practice that should be shared.

EDIT: Sorry - To your first point, one of the great things about the bagged ice is the high surface area. It makes it super fast. But if someone wanted a safer option and cared less about a good cold break, then a clean block of ice would be a good option. I appreciate you bringing it up.

You make some good points regarding the dogma aspects that creep into our beliefs. For me personally, I just don’t like the idea of concentrating the wort purposely and then diluting it. Especially when brewing all grain. Wort concentration changes the beer. Concentrating the wort changes hop utilization rates, changes mallaird reaction effects (especially important if trying to brew a light colored beer). and probably some other things I’m forgetting. I’m sure you could compensate for some, or all of these things, but why add another step?

But that‘s just me. You do you.