Infected saison

[Beenym88]

So it appears I have my first ever infected brew. This is a saison brewed with mangrove jack French saison yeast the look of the infection did not start until I added dry hops and dried dandelion which i froze for over 24hrs to kill the bugs but I must assume that did not work. I’m curious on everyone’s feelings because as of now it taste totally fine. Do I dump it just because it’s infected? Do I dump it because it will infect everything it touches? Since it’s in a plastic fermenter can that be saved or is it trash. Could I bottle it if it continues to taste fine I normally keg everything but really don’t want to ruin any equipment.

 

[Miraculix]

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So it appears I have my first ever infected brew. This is a saison brewed with mangrove jack French saison yeast the look of the infection did not start until I added dry hops and dried dandelion which i froze for over 24hrs to kill the bugs but I must assume that did not work. I’m curious on everyone’s feelings because as of now it taste totally fine. Do I dump it just because it’s infected? Do I dump it because it will infect everything it touches? Since it’s in a plastic fermenter can that be saved or is it trash. Could I bottle it if it continues to taste fine I normally keg everything but really don’t want to ruin any equipment.

I have no idea what made you think that freezing something for 24h would kill the microorganisms, but as you already guessed correctly, it surely did not

Anyway, it looks like wild yeast to me, not a big problem. Actually, if you let it ride longer, it could even improve the beer. A little funk can be great in a saison!

If the gravity is below 0, you'd be safe to bottle at any point. Otherwise the new guests that arrived with the dandelion might continue digesting the remaining carbs slowly, leading to an uncontrollable carbonation in the bottle or even exploding bottles. With an infection, a stable gravity over multiple weeks would be required to bottle safely.

 

[Beenym88]

I have no idea what made you think that freezing something for 24h would kill the microorganisms, but as you already guessed correctly, it surely did not

Anyway, it looks like wild yeast to me, not a big problem. Actually, if you let it ride longer, it could even improve the beer. A little funk can be great in a saison!

If the gravity is below 0, you'd be safe to bottle at any point. Otherwise the new guests that arrived with the dandelion might continue digesting the remaining carbs slowly, leading to an uncontrollable carbonation in the bottle or even exploding bottles. With an infection, a stable gravity over multiple weeks would be required to bottle safely.

It’s worked in the past with fruit so that’s why I thought I’d be okay. But if I keg it will that keg and line be comprised.

 

[Miraculix]

It’s worked in the past with fruit so that’s why I thought I’d be okay. But if I keg it will that keg and line be comprised.

I think the keg could be cleaned. At the end, yeast is yeast. But with the line...I don't know. Many possibilities for little cracks and so on to appear and you cannot really reach them. So maybe swap the line afterwards. But kegging in general sounds like a good idea, no bottle bombs then!

 

[BrewZer]

How did you sanitize your hop bags? (freezer, I assume...)

 

[Beenym88]

The hop bag was thoroughly drenched in star San prior to dropping it in.

 

[VikeMan]

Since it’s in a plastic fermenter can that be saved or is it trash.

Congrats! You have now acquired a "brett/sour only" fermentation vessel. Every brewhouse should have one anyway.

But if I wanted to package (i.e. not dump) this beer, I'd bottle it, once I was sure the gravity was stable. Possibly in champagne bottles, which would give you some margin for error. Personally, I wouldn't keg a brett beer. Your keg, serving lines (both beer line and CO2 line), and faucets all have plastic/rubber parts.

 

[Beenym88]

Thanks kegging or bottling if it continues to taste good was my primary concern. I love sours so as long as it’s safe it’s okay with me. Would you do a standard priming sugar for carbonating in bottles? It’s been a long time.

 

[VikeMan]

Would you do a standard priming sugar for carbonating in bottles? It’s been a long time.

I would probably go for a medium-ish carbonation level (on the low-ish end for a saison), given that you might get a little more from the Brett as the beer ages.

 

[Snuffy]

I’m pretty sure you got a Portuguese Man’o’war floating in there. Bet it turns out unique and interesting at the very least.

 

[fourfarthing]

I would also advise pitching some Brett, as if you only got bacteria you will need some brett to clean it up. Might also help you pick your flavor profile on the funk.

 

[IslandLizard]

As others said, probably a wild yeast rode in with the dandelion flowers. It may actually turn out very good.

Those halfway floating hop bags didn't help your case either. They should have been submerged, weighed down with a handful of glass marbles or a couple stainless Ts or so. If they still remain partially submerged, douse with the beer, regularly, by gently swirling. Same holds true when adding fruit.

That gets us to the next issue: headspace and oxygen.
Those should be (close to) nil in either case. Some headspace is OK as long as it doesn't contain (much) oxygen. The lower the O2 levels the better, also to prevent oxidizing your beer.
Try to find ways to purge/flush that headspace... Or better yet, if you have one, carefully rack to a glass (secondary, 5 gallon) carboy, and fill it all the way, leaving only 1-2" under the bung (and airlock). Limit O2 exposure as much as you can. It also deters Acetobacter from taking over, sooner or later.

Your Fermonster is very smooth PET and can be reused, after thorough cleaning and sanitation. You may want to use some bleach for sanitizer at the end for a few hours. Rinse out well when it's done. And/or set out in the bright sun for an afternoon, letting the sun reach everywhere on the inside, UV is a good sterilizer. Don't forget the lid and the threaded areas of the Fermonster.

Any infected plastic tubing... well they can be cleaned and sanitized, but easier to replace, just to be sure.

 

[Jayjay1976]

The hop bag was thoroughly drenched in star San prior to dropping it in.

Just confirming, you dipped the hop bag into star san before putting the hops in it, right?

Also, this will probably turn out to be a great beer.

 

[couchsending]

It’s a saison. There was a point in time where all Saisons were probably infected. A lot of people probably think the best Saisons are mixed culture beers.

You got some wild yeast on the Dandelions guaranteed. It being moderately hopped wort and full of dry hops there’s 1% chance you’ve got any lacto in there so it’s not totally unlikely but most likely you won’t get a sour beer. However you will probably get some wild yeast character after enough time.

Any idea what the gravity was or is. French Saison will probably take the beer pretty close to 1.000 on its own so there might not be too much sugar left to consume.

I’d pull the dry hops and dandelions out, try to purge the headspace with Co2 as best as you can and let it sit with an airlock for 2 months or so then bottle in thick glass aiming for 2.5 vol of Co2. I wouldn’t recommend bottling anything with wild yeast or diastaticus yeast in anything but heavy glass personally.

This should now be your “dirty” fermenter if it’s plastic. As should everything that’s plastic that touches this beer afterwards. The primary yeast you used is also diastaticus. I’d avoid using a diastaticus yeast in any plastic fermenter that you want to make other clean styles in.

Let this beer go and see what happens. You could develop a really nice beer made from micro flora from your yard or wherever these dandelions came from. If you do like how it turns out in 2 months you could also repurchase onto the slurry and try to recreate it.