Induction Brewing - 2.5g with Recirculation

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
Can't beat those choices, Sammy.

I've got a couple I want to try (and I agreed to try and make a Lithuanian Kepinis from here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/beer-connoisseur-article-traditional-lithuanian-brewing-no-boil-hop-tea-368766/ ) but I'm definitely going to do a table beer series based on English milds coming up.

The more I think about it, I think I'm going to go 3500W. You can always turn the power down, but turning it up past "11" isn't as easy.

Just hoping that I can still do my small batches with it, but I've got more people asking for "samples" now, so I'm hoping 3gal will cover it.
 

14thstreet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
434
Reaction score
26
Location
Milwaukee, WI
sumbrewindude, please keep us posted about the table beer series. I've brewed a couple English milds and I'm still not sure where I stand with them. The last I brewed was JW Lees Best Mild. Have it "on cask" for the last month or so and the flavors have already dropped out somewhat. Had a wonderful nose to it early on. I made the invert and caramel coloring myself.
 

AnOldUR

fer-men-TAY-shuhn
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
6,847
Reaction score
856
The more I think about it, I think I'm going to go 3500W. You can always turn the power down, but turning it up past "11" isn't as easy.
You won't regret it. The only reason to not "go big" is problems with having or getting 240V to your brewing area.

Although some of the better 120 and 240V models have a higher degree of precision if you plan to mash with it.
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
14thST - Can do. Love that blog (Shut up about Barclay Perkins), and it's honestly one of the main reasons that I want to start developing a few session/table beers. As much as I love a good, balanced high ABV beer I'd just as soon take a couple milds or session beers that I can enjoy at dinner or just infront of the tube. If you haven't already found the index for the Let's Brew Wed's here it is: http://www.unholymess.com/blog/lets-brew .

How are you doing your cask conditioning? Last time I did it in the bottles, but man would I like to eventually get a pin from Northern Brewer. I wonder if there's a way to turn a cornie into a pin...

AnOldUR - nope, no plans to mash - that'll be in the cooler. I'm happy with the cooler thing for now, though I could see eventually working in a HERMS setup for stepmashing, maybe once I got a pump to play around with.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
I was thinking the English Mild would be a good excuse/reason to get some kegs going. Would love to have a mild on tap with just enough carbonation to make it relatively authentic.

I will probably do the Maibock first since it will take some to time to lager. Should be ready by May if I start now. I also want to try some step mashing and triple decoction with my new system. That is one of the reasons I got the Cadet. I really likes me some pilsners and lagers. I have the fermentation temp control now so nothing really holding me back. Come to think of it lagers would do well with a kegerator.

SBD - I saw where you posted the sale on the 3g used kegs at AIH. Those are a great deal!
 

dattac

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Location
Horsham
Welcome to HBT dattac! :mug:

What are the dimensions on that kettle from Bru Gear? Didn't see it posted on the site. Love how they are promoting induction brewing!
Thanks!

I'm not sure of the exact dimensions of the 10g kettle, but he did post the dims of the 15 and 20 here, so I'm assuming (with the same height = 1.2 x diameter) that it would be 13.8" diameter and 16.5" height... or at least around that.


The utility sink was pretty easy to get SWMBO to agree to. "Hey honey...would you like a sink in the brewery I mean in the laundry area?"
:cool:
I'm going with the same logic. When it was "just" a laundry sink, it was too expensive (need a pump to get it up to the sewer line), but now that it's dual purpose, it is well within reason ;)
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
New BIAB dip stick marked and calibrated for the 5.5g kettle. Oak dowel (5/8" x 18") with the marks burned in with my soldering iron. Bought a new soldering tip for the "pyrography". 1 to 5 gallons with quart marks in between.

IMG_0742.JPG
 

14thstreet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
434
Reaction score
26
Location
Milwaukee, WI
How are you doing your cask conditioning?
I followed the instructions given by Kristen in the last couple LBWs. I racked to a cornie with priming sugar and isinglass and let sit at room temperature for several days. Isinglass is optional for the black mild I made (can't see through it). I moved it down to my basement which was ~45F at the time (a bit too cold) and lay it sideways with a block under the bottom end, gas post down. Of course, I needed to break the vacuum to get flow but also did not want to add air to the beer. This is where you can debate whether this is "cask". I attached CO2 to the liquid out to put ~1-2psi on the keg once in a while to increase flow beyond just a trickle, otherwise it was shut off. I'd see a pin as strictly a novelty for me...spend the money on the induction burner!
 

brewman !

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
2,080
Reaction score
217
I just sent a few emails for quotes on 5Kw units to a supplier on Alibaba. I want to do up to 15 gallon batches. I started working on a steam system, but this would be simpler and cleaner, if it works.

There are 8 Kw units, but they are 460V, not 240V.

FYI, electric hot water heating elements are 100% efficient. 1 Kw = 3,412 BTU delivered to the water, 4.5 Kw = 15,350 BTU delivered to the water.

It bugs me none of the manufacturers seem to clarify whether these things draw 3500w or provide 3500w of heat. The later would seem logical, except it doesn't match up with the current draws they are listing.

These things are at most 90% efficient. If the current draw yields a power of 3500 watts, the maximum power they are providing to the pot is 3.15 KW or 10,750 BTU. Which isn't very much.

FYI, you MUST boil wort with the lid removed or you'll encounter problems with DMS. Google "wort boil DMS" for more info.

I'm thinking my steam system would be MUCH faster and not any more expensive. But induction would certainly be simpler.

None of the 5Kw models have temperature controls built in. I'm not sure how easy it would be to automate them.

5Kw @ 90% = 4.5Kw delivered to the pot/water. People do 15 gallon batches with heater elements of that size... its not fast, but they do it.

We have a high power Kitchenaid induction cooktop in our house. Its great. I have 44 and 82 qt BC pots.
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
First things first, totally sorry for hijacking your awesome thread, Sammy, for the sake of cask talk..

:off:

I followed the instructions given by Kristen in the last couple LBWs. I racked to a cornie with priming sugar and isinglass and let sit at room temperature for several days. Isinglass is optional for the black mild I made (can't see through it). I moved it down to my basement which was ~45F at the time (a bit too cold) and lay it sideways with a block under the bottom end, gas post down. Of course, I needed to break the vacuum to get flow but also did not want to add air to the beer. This is where you can debate whether this is "cask". I attached CO2 to the liquid out to put ~1-2psi on the keg once in a while to increase flow beyond just a trickle, otherwise it was shut off. I'd see a pin as strictly a novelty for me...spend the money on the induction burner!
So you're pouring off the gas tube and using the liquid tube as a gas line? Sort of like inverting the keg?

I was doing some thinking about small casks last night (just because I've got nothing better to do than think about beer when the fam goes to bed :rockin: ), and what about those 5L minikegs? I could suffer through a gallon of Bell's Oberon for the container, prime 1/3rd, and condition in that. As it's a gravity feed/O2 intrusion anyway, it might as well be a pin. And as it's only 5L, it'll be through pretty quick minimizing the eventual oxidation issues.

Hmmmmm....



Back on topic - Sammy you brew with that get-up yet? Dang it I wanna see some BEER made! :mug:
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
No worries...enjoying the cask talk. :)

You and 14thstreet have me hooked on the Barclay Perkins blog! I am thinking of trying the mild with a keg and doing the pseudo cask thing. Noticed my LHBS has Oak casks in stock now. Hmmm?

Gearing up for a brew tomorrow night. Will brew the English Mild instead of the bock...and on Wednesday. See what you guys did now? :tank:
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
LOL. Don't feel bad, I stopped past the beer store and got a mini-keg of Bell's Oberon. I hope to have that finished before the weekend, so hopefully I can start carefully tearing it apart so I can clean it out in preparation for a table beer series.

I'm thinking of grabbing a couple of the two piece bungs for the tops, then when it's time to pour I'll just punch the top and put an "S" airlock on it so while there'll be oxygen intrusion for the pour, it won't be recirculating O2 from an open vent ontop.

Would it be wrong if I said I was excited over the fact that it'd be 14 bottles I wouldn't have to deal with?

If it works out, man - table beer in a 5L minikeg for the fridge, a few extra cellaring in the basement, and bottles for my off the wall/high ABV stuff. Wait a tic, didn't I have some 3gal kegs I just bought?

I'd tell you to play around with oak chips/squares before jumping into the oak barrel thing, Sammy - I tried the chips thinking "oh this'll be a cake". I now have 14 bottles of oaky something that I'm hoping will tame down here in a few weeks, and it really wasn't that much oak! Still love the barrel thing, but I'm learning to appreciate stainless/PETE.

Get to brewing Sammy, I need to get my head out of cask talk and into induction. :D
 

14thstreet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
434
Reaction score
26
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Last word on the "cask"...After using the 5 gallon corny, I'd personally switch to using the 1 gallon collapsible polypins and take any hit of oxidation I'd get while serving. Much less work for being the only drinker (of this batch) even if less fancy. I looked into the 5L minikegs and felt it was too much extra work/money for that amount of beer if you were to use CO2 and they may not last as long . I'm not sure it is at all needed. I have a polypin but for some stupid reason did not use it at the same time for this mild.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
In my quest for better clarity in my brews I got an upgraded BIAB from Wilserbrewer. I have had paint strainer bags up until now so this is nice upgrade. The mesh on the Swiss voile is much finer. Should have listened to the Aussie's sooner!

Ordered it on Monday and it came in the mail today just in time to brew this weekend. Tailored perfectly for my 5.5 gallon kettle! Here's a pic of the new bag and my old paint strainer bag for comparison.

IMG_0747.JPG


paint-strainer-bag.jpg
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
Man I've been meaning to get one of Wilser's bags for my 5gal cooler, but I keep spacing on it. Did you get a hop bag while you were at it? I'm usin 1gal paintbags for that right now and they're the bomb. A dedicated bag would be even better.

You brew yet?

Any time the tax man wants to cough up my interest free loan would be awesome - my shopping list keeps getting larger by the day.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
Brewing now. LHBS was out of the yeast and part of the grain bill for both recipes I took in. The English Mild and Maibock are off the menu this week. Really need a stir plate for the Maibock to make a starter anyway. :(

I decided to do a simple Simcoe SMaSH with 2-row pale malt and Safale US-05. Heating up the sparge water now and will post some brewday pics this evening. :)
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
Looking forward to the SMASH!

I was going to do the Keptinis, but that has quite the mess going before actual dough in, so I'm pushing it to next weekend.

I'm 30min into a 90min mash on the LIVID experiment, I've got a quart jar of Notty slurry that needs to be used and I can't wait to open up the Simcoe/Mosaic hop bags to see how this is going to turn out.

Looking forward to pics!
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
Man I've been meaning to get one of Wilser's bags for my 5gal cooler, but I keep spacing on it. Did you get a hop bag while you were at it? I'm usin 1gal paintbags for that right now and they're the bomb. A dedicated bag would be even better.
Missed this part on the first read. I just got the BIAB bag and am using my old paint strainer bags as hop bags. I have always tossed the hops in naked in the past. Maybe this will help clear this beer a bit more.

Simcoe is little more on the earthy side with some pine notes and not as grapefuityish as say Citra. Can't wait to bottle this SMaSH and I haven't even mashed in yet! :drunk:
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
You want pine and grapefruit, get a wiff of Chinook sometime. I've yet to get to play with Citra, it's on the list somewhere.

AFA using a hop bag during the boil and clear beer, man are you in for a treat. First time I did it I couldn't believe the difference it made, especially with the siphon to transfer to my carboy. Seemed like a lot less trub than usual. I'm now a fan of using them for sure.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
Great brew day...well night actually. Had some of my buddies over for some brews and to watch the brewing and you know how that ends up. I have one 16oz bottle left from the 20 I got of my last Hefe batch on the old system.

First brew on the new induction system went well. I tested the heck out of it so I new my boil offs and its temp control. The mash stayed in a 3 degree range 152-155 with it set to 160F. I checked at 30 minutes and at the end.

Boil was rockin' except at hop additions but came back after a minute or so. Happy! :rockin:

Enough of my yapping here are the pics.

Batch Size: 2.50 gal
5 lbs 15.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
0.43 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min
0.6 pkg Safale American (Fermentis #US-05)

Gettin' ready


Mashin'


Drainin'


Hoppin'


Chillin'


Fermentin'


Cheers :tank:
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
The hop bag is the way to go! Way less trub in the kettle.

I need to put one on the end of the siphon for the kettle to carboy transfer. Will definitely not forget next time.
 

HopSong

Senior Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Messages
1,949
Reaction score
106
Location
Meridian
FWIW, going back to the original post with the Bayou Classic pot. Mine is NOT magnetic.. so, I guess that leaves that one out. Also, my Blichmann pot is not magnetic either. The only one I have that IS magnetic is similar to the one you have from WalMart. Mine is only listed as a 22qt pot.. so should be perfect for 2.5-3gallon brews.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
I did email Bayou Classic several months ago and they stated all their stainless pots were induction capable. Not sure about the magnet test on these however?

The one I am looking at is the 8g tri-ply bottom basic so I can build it out.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DoWBrewer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Messages
255
Reaction score
38
I did my first brew with my induction burner last night in my basement brewery. Other than taking a little longer to heat the strike water and messing up my volumes in BeerSmith, it worked really well. I will definitely do more five gallon batches using BIAB and my induction burner. I will save the 15-gallon batches for the beers I want a lot of.
 

HopSong

Senior Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Messages
1,949
Reaction score
106
Location
Meridian
So then, I guess, the magnet test doesn't really mean anything. I was wondering.

I'm at the hump of still reading customer reviews on Amazon. Some seem to love different units.. others hate them. Scary partis.. if they burn out or quit working it's an expensive replacement.. whereas, propane burners seem to take a lickin an keep on tickin.

Really want to do this.. but.. nervous.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
I did my first brew with my induction burner last night in my basement brewery. Other than taking a little longer to heat the strike water and messing up my volumes in BeerSmith, it worked really well. I will definitely do more five gallon batches using BIAB and my induction burner. I will save the 15-gallon batches for the beers I want a lot of.
I use Beersmith and it took a few test batches to get it dialed in with this system. The brew I did last Saturday was pretty much dead on with volumes, temps and gravity. Tweak your profiles with data from your last brew and Beersmith will reward you!

So then, I guess, the magnet test doesn't really mean anything. I was wondering.

I'm at the hump of still reading customer reviews on Amazon. Some seem to love different units.. others hate them. Scary partis.. if they burn out or quit working it's an expensive replacement.. whereas, propane burners seem to take a lickin an keep on tickin.

Really want to do this.. but.. nervous.
Not sure on the magnet test? Hit or miss...some kettles work with induction that fail the magnet test. :confused:

I was also concerned about the durability of induction cooktops so I went with the commercial grade Vollrath in hopes that it would last for many years. If it craps out a couple years down the road I will probably be ahead if you factor in propane refills.

Which induction cooktop are you looking at?
 

DustyBrew

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
112
Reaction score
25
Location
Portland
Whats the fuss about magnetic test. Just get a piece of flat stainless like a thin grill grate. :eek: And any pot work's.


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app

1395375165791.jpg
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
DustyBrew - How did that work when you tested it? What induction cooktop and pots did you test with? Just curious. :)
 

DustyBrew

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
112
Reaction score
25
Location
Portland
Aluminum pot sits right on top. Used the Nuwave induction cooktop. You could cut the metal to fit perfectly on cooktop. Had a piece laying around so decided to try it. Induction started right up using mostly to control mash temp. But went to boiling also.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
Interesting trick, but I'm not sure how that'd be any more efficient than a simple coil top.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
Still waiting on LHBS to get in the ingredients for the EPA recipe. They have everything 'cept the West Yorkshire 1496 yeast. Wondering if I should sub Danstar Windsor or WLP 005 British Ale Yeast or wait?

sumbrewindude or 14th Street - any experience/thoughts?

Inkeeper Ale (TTL Clone) 2.5 Gallons
4 lbs 1.2 oz British Golden Promise (2.2 SRM)
6.4 oz English Extra Dark Crystal (160.0 SRM)
4.3 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) 60 Min boil
0.41 oz Fuggle [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.41 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min
0.41 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469)
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
Haven't used Yorkshire yet, it hasn't been in stock for a while. Skip Windsor, it's great for milds or sugar heavy recipes as it'll under attenuate (similar to S33).

According to Mr. Malty there is no cross for Yorkshire, it's unique, where as WL005 is the ringwood strain (1187), so between 005 and Windsor, definitely 005.

That looks tasty, BTW.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
Seems I have resurrected the cask discussion here. ;)

I have "broken" several recipes by substituting ingredients but am reluctant to do this with yeast since it accounts for so much of the character of the beer. I think you have convinced me to wait for the Yorkshire 1496.

I want to establish some sort of baseline for this style and the only local commercial stuff I have to compare is Bass Pale Ale and...well...that's about it for English beers. Going to pour another Bass right now for research. :mug:

PS: SBD...thank you for your insight. Always appreciate your comments!
 

sumbrewindude

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
879
Reaction score
149
No problem Sammy!

I'm surprised you don't have Fuller's down there - that'd be another good one to try if you get a chance. Along with Boddingtons (they should have that if there's Guiness). Those are pretty mainstream. If you've got a big liquor store with beer you might have access to a few more.

I'm with you on the subbing ingredients, sometimes you can cheat it and get close or make your own character, other times - well, it's interesting. Yeast, OTOH, can definitely effect the product. I'm on the side that if you're doing a very specific style, you should stay with that style's yeast (eg, a Kolsch needs a Kolsch yeast). On clone specific beers, same thing.

In this instance, as it's a british style beer, but not a specific clone of anything, I wouldn't be opposed to trying 005 in place of Yorkshire. Ideally I'd make it again when it was available, but it wouldn't stop me from trying the recipe. If all I had was Windsor or US05, I'd wait for a better yeast. A lot of my English beers use S04 (whitbread) because I can keep it constant, and see the differences in the malts. I like the profile, and it's cheap, so I keep it around. I am starting to branch out to other English yeasts, but S04 is so versitile I can use it in APA's and some cream ales too.

Once again, those are only my opinions on the matter, and I know lots of guys and gals that have a much different opinion.

Love brewing regardless.
 
OP
sammy33

sammy33

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
274
Reaction score
29
Location
Lawrenceville
I found the Wyeast 1469! Another LHBS has it in stock. Looks like I will need to make a simple starter as the date/viability is 58% yielding about 58B cells with an O.G. of 1.046 requiring 80B.

Guess I won't be cranking up the induction brewery until the starter is ready. Maybe Monday if I pitch the starter today?

British Ale research went nicely last night with several pints of Bass. :drunk: I have had Fuller's ESB as well as Boddington's but they were nowhere to be found this week. Normally I can even get Young's Special London and Samuel Smith's Pale Ale but of course not in stock when I am "researching". :rolleyes:

Bass Pale Ale Trivia:
The original English Pale Ale and England’s first trademark, Bass
has been embraced by trail-blazers since 1777. The brand has been
painted by Manet, fought over by Napoleon and was served on the
Titanic.
 
Top