Indoor BIAB

[Gavin C]

So... any notable differences from a simple infusion mash that you can pick out?

Nice looking brew.

Nothing stands out as notably different but like I said I've never had a Kolsch before aside from using WLP029 on another mostly Pilsner grain bill (the Munich Helles I showed in my thread earlier, the one with the 30 minute mash). That was fermented much cooler.

This brew does seem to have most of the characteristics listed in teh BJCP guide for appearance, qualities, flavor and aroma. I think a big pinch of salt needed with that last statement.

When it comes to descibing flavors though....TAXI. I'm just not skilled enough to know my arse from my elbow I reckon.

Gotta get that Fedex account and see whatya think.

Next up is an Alt this weekend. Step mash or infusion is planned. Not sure I want to tackle a decoction just yet. If I do one I'll most likely do a single decoction to raise to mash out temperatures.

 

[Psylocide]

Nothing stands out as notably different but like I said I've never had a Kolsch before aside from using WLP029 on another mostly Pilsner grain bill (the Munich Helles I showed in my thread earlier, the one with the 30 minute mash). That was fermented much cooler.

This brew does seem to have most of the characteristics listed in teh BJCP guide for appearance, qualities, flavor and aroma. I think a big pinch of salt needed with that last statement.

When it comes to descibing flavors though....TAXI. I'm just not skilled enough to know my arse from my elbow I reckon.

Gotta get that Fedex account and see whatya think.

Next up is an Alt this weekend. Step mash or infusion is planned. Not sure I want to tackle a decoction just yet. If I do one I'll most likely do a single decoction to raise to mash out temperatures.

Bah, like I know... I chug Busch Light for a living.

I suppose it's quite a bit to ask, being that you can't do a side-by-side comparison.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Hey guys, thought I'd add my $0.02

A step mash can give you a bit more complex mouthfeel if desired for a delicately balanced brew. It can also help increase attenuation, depending on your rests. While it isn't necessary when using fully modified malts, it may help push your beer up a few points in a comp for those light beers with rather simple malt bills. Other than light lagers and hybrid ales, the only other beer I use a step mash with is my Dry Stout, merely for the extra attenuation I get as opposed to single infusion. All other brews are typically single infusion.

When developing my Czech Pils recipe, I did an experiment where I brewed two identical Pilsners with identical stats (OG, FG, IBU, etc.) but one was step mashed, the other was single infusion. Side by side, the single infusion seemed to have a higher body, and noticeably less crispness on the finish. The step mashed beer had some varying characteristics throughout the mouthfeel profile as you drank it - started smooth, middle was a bit fuller, finish was nice and crisp. Not only was it a bit more complex, but also to a much desired overall effect. If you have the capability, and you're looking to take an already good light beer up a level, give it a try. Some people can't tell the difference, some can. If you can't tell, and/or if it doesn't score higher in comp, then go back to the simpler single infusion mashing.

TL;DR: Step mashing isn't objectively better than single infusion. I would advise giving a step mash a try and see if you think there is an appreciable difference. Some people not only can tell the difference, but love the added effect. On the other hand, some can't even detetect any difference.

 

[Gavin C]

So... any notable differences from a simple infusion mash that you can pick out?

Very unscientific but 3 weeks since brewing the Munich Helles with WLP833 and a step mash I definitely prefer the results at this early stage. Not really sure how I would describe it but it just tastes and feels better. Also the lacing is very long lasting on this brew. A notable difference from the 30 min mash with WLP029.

The two mash profiles


Munich Helles 3 weeks post brew (sampled for science)


I know, different yeast, different brew with slightly different grain bill (acid malt used instead of lactic acid in the water to reduce mash pH)

Hey guys, thought I'd add my $0.02

A step mash can give you a bit more complex mouthfeel if desired for a delicately balanced brew. It can also help increase attenuation, depending on your rests. While it isn't necessary when using fully modified malts, it may help push your beer up a few points in a comp for those light beers with rather simple malt bills. Other than light lagers and hybrid ales, the only other beer I use a step mash with is my Dry Stout, merely for the extra attenuation I get as opposed to single infusion. All other brews are typically single infusion.

When developing my Czech Pils recipe, I did an experiment where I brewed two identical Pilsners with identical stats (OG, FG, IBU, etc.) but one was step mashed, the other was single infusion. Side by side, the single infusion seemed to have a higher body, and noticeably less crispness on the finish. The step mashed beer had some varying characteristics throughout the mouthfeel profile as you drank it - started smooth, middle was a bit fuller, finish was nice and crisp. Not only was it a bit more complex, but also to a much desired overall effect. If you have the capability, and you're looking to take an already good light beer up a level, give it a try. Some people can't tell the difference, some can. If you can't tell, and/or if it doesn't score higher in comp, then go back to the simpler single infusion mashing.

TL;DR: Step mashing isn't objectively better than single infusion. I would advise giving a step mash a try and see if you think there is an appreciable difference. Some people not only can tell the difference, but love the added effect. On the other hand, some can't even detetect any difference.

Thanks for the information Tiber. Interesting stuff.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I should add that when using fully modified malts, avoid mashing below 138F. All the glucan and protein rests have been done in the malthouse, so all the brewer needs to do is perform saccharification rests. My standard schedule for a light lager is 140F for 20, 150F for 30, 158F for 10, mashout at 168F for 10 mins.

 

[joshesmusica]

I'm wondering if step mashes would be a good idea for smash beers as well since it should make a more complex flavor without those specialty malts?

 

[AnOldUR]

I'm wondering if step mashes would be a good idea for smash beers . . .

I decocted a Munich / Tett SMaSH for a Munich Dunkel with excellent results. Toasted some of the Munich, so some might say that breaks the SMaSH rules. Wyeast Munich Lager yeast.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

I'm wondering if step mashes would be a good idea for smash beers as well since it should make a more complex flavor without those specialty malts?

A step mash adds complexity more to the mouthfeel, not necessarily to the flavor. Just FYI

 

[ArcLight]

Would a step mash not matter much if you use a very tight crush?

With BIAB you can crash much tighter than when using a regular mash tun.
Wouldn't conversion happen faster, with smaller particles?
While the Alpha Amylase is operating at the bottom of its optimal range, isn't it still effective, since it has easier access to the grain particles?

 

[Gavin C]

Would a step mash not matter much if you use a very tight crush?

With BIAB you can crash much tighter than when using a regular mash tun.
Wouldn't conversion happen faster, with smaller particles?
While the Alpha Amylase is operating at the bottom of its optimal range, isn't it still effective, since it has easier access to the grain particles?

With my BH efficiency consistently at 80% and my targeted numbers being reached, I'm doing this, not to target higher efficiency but to see if the processes are feasible with my setup and to see if they impart any notable benefits to my beers.

I've been reading quite a few of the lager and hybrid recipes in the AHA's database and there seems to be quite a few award winning beers where the recipe includes some degree of mashing complexity. Thought I'd try my hand at the techniques. An new area with which to control the beer's subjective qualities perhaps but also for the fun and technical challenge involved.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

With BIAB you can crash much tighter than when using a regular mash tun. Wouldn't conversion happen faster, with smaller particles?

Yes. My step schedule I posted is for standard crush using a false bottom. I don't speak for BIAB methods, so adjust accordingly.

While the Alpha Amylase is operating at the bottom of its optimal range, isn't it still effective, since it has easier access to the grain particles?

Alpha amylase's optimum temp range is 150-160F, so it is not significantly active at the initial 140F step and you will create predominantly fermentable monosaccharides. Step schedules are intended to optimize specific enzymatic activity at specific temperatures for specific times to achieve your desired effect. Depending on conversion rate (i.e. if you have finer crush using BIAB), desired mouthfeel, desired attenuation and more, the temps and times can vary in order to manipulate enzymatic activity to your advantage.

 

[jtratcliff]

Not sure I want to tackle a decoction just yet. If I do one I'll most likely do a single decoction to raise to mash out temperatures.

I did Kaiser's Dusseldorfer Alt from the recipe section with a step mash and single decoction. It wasn't too big of a deal, even direct firing on stovetop in the kitchen instead of using infusions to hit the rest steps. Hardest part was hitting the step temps. via controlling the flame by hand. Takes longer, for sure, and there is lots of stirring involved.

Once I got up to the saccharification rest, I just pulled out 2 gallons or so for the decoction boil in a separate pot while the main mash was going. Didn't worry about hitting mashout with just the decoction afterwards.

The Alt came out great. A German visitor who had tasted Alts in Dusseldorf said that it held its own with any from the area. So I was pleased with that.

You can get some of the effects of a decoction by using some melanoidin malt but it's really easy to pull some mash and boil it separately.

 

[Gavin C]

I did Kaiser's Dusseldorfer Alt from the recipe section with a step mash and single decoction. ..

Once I got up to the saccharification rest, I just pulled out 2 gallons or so for the decoction boil in a separate pot while the main mash was going. Didn't worry about hitting mashout with just the decoction afterwards.

The Alt came out great. A German visitor who had tasted Alts in Dusseldorf said that it held its own with any from the area. So I was pleased with that.

That's great. Thanks for that info. Brewing an an Alt tomorrow. It's a recipe I put together myself. (A first for me). I haven't finalized my mash profile yet but will likely try some infusions rather than the direct firing of the MT this time. The constant stirring during the ramps was not difficult but was a bit of a pain.

I was thinking a step infusion mash like @Tiber_brew outlined earlier (no protein rest only sacch. rests) and a single decoction similar to what you describe might be a good way to go. Kai's decoction video is great. Hugely informative. Really enjoyed watching it.

Did you carry out a rest with your decoction itself or bring it straight to the boil? I'm guessing the latter as it was only to get to mash out.

I'm not sure if doing a decoction is such a good idea with my grain bill though. It's got about 2.5% Carafe II special in it. Would that make things too dark I wonder. Current projected SRM is ~14 so toward the lower end of the style range.

 

[jtratcliff]

I didn't rest the decoction at all, just pulled it and brought to the boil during the sacc rests of the main mash, then added it back at the end for mashout.

I think in part 3 of Kai's videos, he shows that there's not a whole lot of color change due to the decoction. I don't recall his grain bill, though.

Edit to Add:

I just checked my notes... My take on Kai's recipe called for 2 oz of Carafa II (in 6 gal batch) but LHBS store only had carafa III.
Apparently I did do infusions... from my notes:

Doughed in w/ 5.5 gal @ 145F (grains were cold from fridge)
- temp came to 138 F... added ice cubes to 133F
- protein rest for 20m

added 2.5 gal boiling to go to 150F...
- temp came to 148F
- fired tun to raise temp to 151F
- held for 20 min then pulled 2.5 - 3 gal decoction
- left remaining to mash at 150 for 20 more min

boiled decoction for 20 min
- really about 12-15m allowing for coming up to boil.
- added back t main mash to mashout at 170

dunk sparged in 1.5 gal

funny how I only remember playing with the flame to hit temps, not the actual infusions
It was 2 years ago, though. So I guess I'm not terribly senile.

 

[Gavin C]

I didn't rest the decoction at all, just pulled it and brought to the boil during the sacc rests of the main mash, then added it back at the end for mashout.

I think in part 3 of Kai's videos, he shows that there's not a whole lot of color change due to the decoction. I don't recall his grain bill, though.

Good to know. Thanks for the clarification. He showed very minimal color change with his 89%Munich, 10%Caramunich and 1% Carafe II grain bill so I guess I should not be concerned.

 

[jtratcliff]

That Alt 2 years ago was my only step mash and my only decoction... So you can see how gratifying I found it

That said, the Alt was delicious. And when I make it again (maybe in a couple of weeks), I'll probably skip the step mash but keep the decoction.

My limited amount of googling since that time suggest that a protein rest isn't really necessary for today's malts.

 

[Gavin C]

I didn't rest the decoction at all, just pulled it and brought to the boil during the sacc rests of the main mash, then added it back at the end for mashout.

I think in part 3 of Kai's videos, he shows that there's not a whole lot of color change due to the decoction. I don't recall his grain bill, though.

Edit to Add:

I just checked my notes... My take on Kai's recipe called for 2 oz of Carafa II (in 6 gal batch) but LHBS store only had carafa III.
Apparently I did do infusions... from my notes:


funny how I only remember playing with the flame to hit temps, not the actual infusions
It was 2 years ago, though. So I guess I'm not terribly senile.

Thanks for sharing all that extra info. Much appreciated I can tell you

 

[jtratcliff]

No problemo, hope it was useful... Good luck on the Alt.

 

[Gavin C]

No problemo, hope it was useful... Good luck on the Alt.

Things went pretty smoothly. Thanks again for the pointers. Did a step mash with infusions and a single decoction. All sorts of fun.

Mash profile


The infusions were a lot easier to do than direct firing of the MT on my stove. That's the way to go for sure.

Hit my numbers pretty close. Planned 5.5 gallons at 1.049 and brewed 5.4 gallons in the FV at 1.050. I had to extend my boil by a few minutes owing to misreading the AA% of the hops. Lost a little volume as a result.

Mash pH was 5.42 targeting 5.4 so happy with that too.

Mash pH


The only tricky thing I found was in pulling the decoction. The mash was at full volume so getting a thick decoction was not very easy. I think I know how to correct that next time.

The color looks really nice on this one.

Preboil SG

OG 1.050

Post Boil Sample

Fermentation Profile with WLP036


Final Gravity 1.010 (8 days post pitching)

 

[jaydlaw]

Good to hear, congrats! It looks good.

 

[Gavin C]

Tiber's Perfect Kolsch, Superb.





Felt I needed to do justice to @Tiber_Brew 's creation. The previous image did not. Truly marvelous IMHO.

I just entered this in the Limbochallenge. Hopefully it won't fare too badly. This is my first competition so am probably in for a wake-up call. This beer and the Munich Helles I previously showed, kegged at 2 weeks.

Anyway. I would highly recommend this beer. I made a few minor adjustments/additions to the recipe but nothing major.

 

[Tiber_Brew]

Looks great, Gavin

 

[Gavin C]

Continuing with my string of hybrids and lagers. I brewed up a Vienna lager 9 days ago. It's currently just shy of it's anticipated terminal gravity but snapped a picture of it earlier in the ferment.

Roughly 36 hours after pitching yeast it had a very pretty looking krausen. Kinda like a Cappuccino.

Cappuccino Krausen

 

[Mer-man]

Nice. What yeast?

 

[AnOldUR]

Double Shot Cappuccino (wy1469)

 

[Psylocide]

Looking good Gavin.

What are you planning on brewing next? Any stouts or IPAs in the forecast?

 

[Gavin C]

Nice. What yeast?

WLP 833 (2.5L decanted starter) pitched at 48F, passive rise to 50F

 

[Gavin C]

Looking good Gavin.

What are you planning on brewing next? Any stouts or IPAs in the forecast?

Brewing an APA this weekend or next. (Edwort's Haus Ale). This will be my second time doing it. Wanting a fast turaround grain to glass on this one to help me not dip into my lagering Alt, Helles, and soon-to-keg Vienna.:rockin:

I think my stout is soon to kick so it will take its place in the kegerator.

After seeing the picture of the mild you made I really want to make one soon.
Added to the ever growing list of styles to explore. If I don't brew this weekend I could brew the mild next and put the APA on the back burner.

 

[Psylocide]

Well, that mild was kegged in like, 7 days? So... quick turnaround for sure.

If I were doing Edwort's pale, I would add a 1 oz hopstand addition around 170° and dry hop with an oz or 2.

I likes 'em hoppy.

 

[Gavin C]

Well, that mild was kegged in like, 7 days? So... quick turnaround for sure.

If I were doing Edwort's pale, I would add a 1 oz hopstand addition around 170° and dry hop with an oz or 2.

I likes 'em hoppy.

I do need to tweak it a bit hops wise as my cascade are too low in AA%. No dry-hopping on it for me. It's a great crisp ale on it's own. That is probably tantamount to blasphemy in your brewery. i know you likes your hops.