Indoor BIAB

[Gavin C]

Gotcha.

I'm interested to see the efficiency results the next time you mash out.

Regained the lost points on my brew this morning. I did a mash-out as previously described in the thread and got back to 75% efficiency. It was a wheat beer. I was happy with the results. Target OG was 1.051. Hit 1.052

Not a perfect result but I was pleased nonetheless. A good brew without mishap.

Again differing grain bills so lots of variables. Similar target gravity and grain weight

For my system at least a mash-out seems to be beneficial. I will be keeping it

 

[soccerdad]

Gavin - don't know if you read a lot over at biabrewer, but I recommend it. Especially if you are committed to biab and will stick with it (as I am).

They are very serious over there - not as playful and free-wheeling as here (many times) but very data driven and focused on best practice in biab. It may be a bit harder to navigate than here (posts get moved and edited and deleted more) but follow the links from the main mods and you will find some great info.

All that to say your mash out process is well affirmed with supporting data from folks who are biab 24/7 and in many ways helped to pioneer the method.

 

[Gavin C]

Gavin - don't know if you read a lot over at biabrewer, but I recommend it. Especially if you are committed to biab and will stick with it (as I am).

They are very serious over there - not as playful and free-wheeling as here (many times) but very data driven and focused on best practice in biab. It may be a bit harder to navigate than here (posts get moved and edited and deleted more) but follow the links from the main mods and you will find some great info.

All that to say your mash out process is well affirmed with supporting data from folks who are biab 24/7 and in many ways helped to pioneer the method.

That's great info re the data soccerdad. Thanks. I will need to explore the site more.

I have visited the site a couple of times but not really delved very deep. BIAB is my method for the foreseeable future as the results are great. Can't see myself going to a three vessel system anytime soon. If I do I'll probably go electric so lots of planning needed. For now I am a happy camper with BIAB. No plans to change or invest in any new kit.

 

[ericfine50]

Great write-up! thank you for taking all of the pics and the detailed steps

 

[Gavin C]

Great write-up! thank you for taking all of the pics and the detailed steps

Thanks for reading. Hope the thread is of some use to you

 

[ericfine50]

Morning Gavin,

Tons of use out of this thread.

Thank you !

 

[Brew_G]

Regained the lost points on my brew this morning. I did a mash-out as previously described in the thread and got back to 75% efficiency. It was a wheat beer. I was happy with the results. Target OG was 1.051. Hit 1.052

Not a perfect result but I was pleased nonetheless. A good brew without mishap.

Again differing grain bills so lots of variables. Similar target gravity and grain weight

For my system at least a mash-out seems to be beneficial. I will be keeping it

Thanks for following up, Gavin. I'm really curious about this now, so I may give it a whirl on this week's (fingers crossed) brewday.

Gavin - don't know if you read a lot over at biabrewer, but I recommend it. Especially if you are committed to biab and will stick with it (as I am).

They are very serious over there - not as playful and free-wheeling as here (many times) but very data driven and focused on best practice in biab. It may be a bit harder to navigate than here (posts get moved and edited and deleted more) but follow the links from the main mods and you will find some great info.

All that to say your mash out process is well affirmed with supporting data from folks who are biab 24/7 and in many ways helped to pioneer the method.

Interesting. Thanks for this, soccerdad. I may have to check it out, too.

 

[Gavin C]

Gavin - don't know if you read a lot over at biabrewer, but I recommend it. Especially if you are committed to biab and will stick with it (as I am).

They are very serious over there - not as playful and free-wheeling as here (many times) but very data driven and focused on best practice in biab. It may be a bit harder to navigate than here (posts get moved and edited and deleted more) but follow the links from the main mods and you will find some great info.

All that to say your mash out process is well affirmed with supporting data from folks who are biab 24/7 and in many ways helped to pioneer the method.

Hey soccer dad. I was wondering if you could send me a link to info on mash out on BIABrewer. I am trying to navigate the site with some difficulty. Just thought you might have something to hand. No worries if not. I will continue my search.
Thanks

 

[Gavin C]

Gavin - don't know if you read a lot over at biabrewer, but I recommend it. Especially if you are committed to biab and will stick with it (as I am).

They are very serious over there - not as playful and free-wheeling as here (many times) but very data driven and focused on best practice in biab. It may be a bit harder to navigate than here (posts get moved and edited and deleted more) but follow the links from the main mods and you will find some great info.

All that to say your mash out process is well affirmed with supporting data from folks who are biab 24/7 and in many ways helped to pioneer the method.

Hey Soccerdad

Just wondering if you had any links to hand relating to mashout on BIABrewer or elsewhere. I am not having much fun navigating the site.

 

[soccerdad]

.. yeah, like I said, data driven, but maybe not compact and organized. Your twelve days of Christmas may be followed by ten days of reading

Here is one thread .. http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=286 .. there's 82 pages in that thread !!

Also some conversation here .. http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3113

There was another thread that I could not find where folks were reporting data on mash times showing a steady increase in gravity even through the mash-out step where sometimes 5 additional points were gained in the final step.

 

[soccerdad]

There are also a couple of guys here that are active there and (as far as I can tell) very adept with the biababacus if that interests you .. Conestoga, Mad Scientist and lumpy5oh (I think).

I am unable to use the abacus - a combination of my ineptitude and Open Office not liking it. I use the priceless calculator .. http://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/

Cheers

 

[Gavin C]

.. yeah, like I said, data driven, but maybe not compact and organized. Your twelve days of Christmas may be followed by ten days of reading

Here is one thread .. http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=286 .. there's 82 pages in that thread !!

Also some conversation here .. http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3113

There was another thread that I could not find where folks were reporting data on mash times showing a steady increase in gravity even through the mash-out step where sometimes 5 additional points were gained in the final step.

Great stuff Soccerdad. Some reading to get my teeth into.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Slight rant:
Although I admire the biabbrewing forum for it's persistence and expanding the biab community, I find it very hard to find my way around the forum. Also the place isn't very open to new ideas that go against their collective biab traditions. A bit to well defined with terminology as well. Don't mind the terminology so much as the closed mindedness and open ridicule of well established users from these forums I've seen in the time I was there.

Biab is wonderful in it's simplicity and flexibility. It should, imo, be open to new ideas and new brewers both.

Would love for their forum layout to be redesigned, and a less engrained in only full volume single vessel xx minute mashes count as biab.

 

[soccerdad]

I had a boss one time who often asked, "How can somebody so smart be so stupid?" It sticks with me often Sometimes I wonder, "How can people so creative (with BIAB and no chill and other) be so quick to dismiss ideas at the edge?" But in fairness, there is a cultural element there as well - folks from down under are different. Except Cate Blanchett of course - she's gorgeous and amazing no matter what.

 

[Hoppity]

It's a ski jacket that I now use for everyday use. Decent insulation. Certainly keeps me warm. It fits my 10 gallon Megapot very well.

After acquiring and retaining that sweet mash aroma, that jacket must be a real chick magnet.

I actually use my Dad's old barn coat and some moving blankets to insulate my BIAB mash, but I hang them in the garage when I'm done.

Nice write-up, thanks for the effort.

 

[Gavin C]

After acquiring and retaining that sweet mash aroma, that jacket must be a real chick magnet.

I actually use my Dad's old barn coat and some moving blankets to insulate my BIAB mash, but I hang them in the garage when I'm done.

Nice write-up, thanks for the effort.

I haven't notice any more attention from the ladies unfortunately. Haven't noticed the smell either. Probably a similar phenomenon to not being bothered by the smell of one's own farts. I 'm guessing people have been too polite to comment on my malty freshness.

 

[Gavin C]

Since I stopped using secondaries after 3 batches I have been putting my 5 gallon glass carboy to use of late with a side project; namely Edwort's Apfelwein.

After a little over 2 months in the primary it was crystal clear and showing no signs of any more fermentation this past 2-3 weeks. Got around to bottling it yesterday. Decided to jazz up the bottles as shown here. http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/12/how-to-wax-dip-bottles.html

OG: 1.061 FG 0.999 ABV 8.3%

Simple and somewhat pointless project. Doesn't really belong here but is not worthy of thread as it's just a rehash of others work. Thought I would share my results. Very easy to do on the stove top.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I haven't waxed anything yet. Going to a thing at my store managers new house in a couple weeks, may be I'll take a crack at it.

 

[NTexBrewer]

Great post, thanks for the detailed descriptions. I found that I got a little better efficiency doing a 1 gallon dunk sparge at 170 and letting it sit for 10 minutes. Your mash out method is a lot easier. Will have to give it a try on my next batch.

http://www.surlatable.com/product/P...1382&catargetid=120120820000114010&cadevice=c

I use these gloves for handling my hot grain bag and they work great. Added bonus is they are handy with grilling and carving turkey, roasts, etc. Noticed that they are on sale. I bet they are also on sale at the store.

 

[Gavin C]

Great post, thanks for the detailed descriptions. I found that I got a little better efficiency doing a 1 gallon dunk sparge at 170 and letting it sit for 10 minutes. Your mash out method is a lot easier. Will have to give it a try on my next batch.

http://www.surlatable.com/product/P...1382&catargetid=120120820000114010&cadevice=c

I use these gloves for handling my hot grain bag and they work great. Added bonus is they are handy with grilling and carving turkey, roasts, etc. Noticed that they are on sale. I bet they are also on sale at the store.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you found the post of some use. Those gloves look very useful. I may have to invest. Thanks for sharing the link.

 

[Gavin C]

Sipping on one of these now. Tweaked the recipe from Edwort slightly to allow for my systems profile. Once again Beersmith is incredibly useful allowing me to reduce the grain bill by a few ounces. Hit my numbers almost spot on. Target OG of 1.051 and hit 1.052

ABV on this one came to 5.4% so a little outside of style guidelines.

I'm always trying to perceive the flavors associated with various ingredients or styles and am no doubt subject to a certain level of suggestibility, but I do feel I can perceive a subtle banana taste in the background. Clove I'm not so sure on. A veritable novice when it comes to describing flavors.

Here are a few views of the fermentation and the final product on this one.

 

[Gavin C]

On foot of some minimal and better homework on my part I will no longer be using the buffer in my mash. Thanks to prior posters for advising me of this.

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

Quote from this webpage which is pretty clear.

SPECIAL NOTE: Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is indicated by its manufacturer to "lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your water". Evidence by homebrewers indicates that this product does not produce a mash pH in the preferred room-temperature range of 5.3 to 5.5. That evidence shows this product does produce some pH moderation in waters with high Residual Alkalinity. However, the mash pH tends to center around 5.8 (room-temperature measurement). While 5.8 pH is acceptable, it is at the upper end of the desirable mashing range. The evidence also shows that in waters with low Residual Alkalinity, this product shows little effect on mash pH. Since Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is a compound with high sodium content, its use will elevate the sodium concentration in the brewing water. High sodium content can be undesirable from a taste standpoint in beer. Proper alkalinity control of mashing and sparging water may produce more acceptable brewing results for most brewers than with the use of 5.2 Stabilizer. To add emphasis to difficulty in using this product, the following conversation posted on Homebrew Talk between noted brewing water expert, AJ DeLange and the chemist from Five Star Chemical regarding their 5.2 Stabilizer product. "Tipped a few last night with the chemist who designed this product and was able to confirm that it is indeed a mix of phosphates (mono and di basic) that accounts for the presence of the malt phosphate. This is something I have long suspected and am pleased to have finally confirmed. Good manners prevented me from pressing him on it's efficacy and suitability relative to the statement on the label. But his comments on it were basically that most brewers shouldn't use it/need it and that it was put together for a particular brewery that had variable source water and no desire to make any effort to track that variability."

 

[Gavin C]

My latest brew with my setup. "Common Room ESB" by KingBrian1 here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f64/common-room-esb-83878/

 

[RM-MN]

That looks nice and a lot clearer than the previous pictures you posted. I's stop by for a taste if you weren't 1500 miles away.

 

[Gavin C]

That looks nice and a lot clearer than the previous pictures you posted. I's stop by for a taste if you weren't 1500 miles away.

Door is open RM-MN should you find yourself in Dallas, let me know. Another ferocious winter afternoon in Dallas as you can see. T-shirt, cold beer and a swing set to play on

 

[Murphy2012]

My latest brew with my setup. "Common Room ESB" by KingBrian1 here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f64/common-room-esb-83878/

Beautiful looking ESB there, Gavin! Although I have a nice in kitchen burner setup, I'd rather have the weather you had yesterday than mine. It took the lady and I 70 minutes to travel a typical 15 minute trip. It was the first time I ever thought that I may not make it home, the roads were so iced up.

 

[Gavin C]

Beautiful looking ESB there, Gavin! Although I have a nice in kitchen burner setup, I'd rather have the weather you had yesterday than mine. It took the lady and I 70 minutes to travel a typical 15 minute trip. It was the first time I ever thought that I may not make it home, the roads were so iced up.

Thanks Murph..

Turned out OK. Got the ingredients for this one again. Want to improve it next time.

 

[Gavin C]

Same recipe? Otherwise hard to compare, especially if larger grain bill for the 72%.
Could you list your steps for the mash out (beginning with dough in) and the non mash out (dough in on)?

If everything's identical, it should be within 2% or so efficiency, which is within normal variation from brew to brew. Make sure if you don't mash out that you stir the mash thoroughly before pulling the grain bag, which might be what was missing from the non mashout?

Just wanted to post a further update to the mash-out debate. I redid the same recipe as before (KingBrian1's Common Room ESB) yesterday.

Without mashout in a previous brew my OG for this recipe was 1.050. Yesterday with mashout it was 1.055. With volumes into the FV at 5.5gallons for both. The only change in the grainbills was 4oz of Crystal 120L changed to 150L for yesterday's batch. I don't think that would have played a significant role. Perhaps I'm wrong.

The only difference between the two brews' grain bills was that substitution of 120L to 150L crystal. (4oz) and the mash-out as previously described.

Again not a huge data set and hardly compelling evidence to support or refute a practice. Just wanted to share

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Just wanted to post a further update to the mash-out debate. I redid the same recipe as before (KingBrian1's Common Room ESB) yesterday.

Without mashout in a previous brew my OG for this recipe was 1.050. Yesterday with mashout it was 1.055. With volumes into the FV at 5.5gallons for both. The only change in the grainbills was 4oz of Crystal 120L changed to 150L for yesterday's batch. I don't think that would have played a significant role. Perhaps I'm wrong.

The only difference between the two brews' grain bills was that substitution of 120L to 150L crystal. (4oz) and the mash-out as previously described.

Again not a huge data set and hardly compelling evidence to support or refute a practice. Just wanted to share

Interesting. So that's a variation of about 6% efficiency difference between the two brews, from 67% to 73% assuming exact same grain bills and volume into fermenter.

Please describe your mashout procedure vs non mashout procedure. In particular do you stir before pulling the bag, but not the other. Is the mashout time included in your mashing time, or no? If not, try non mashout next time but stir after the usual time period then let it sit a little longer to account for the additional time.

 

[Gavin C]

Interesting. So that's a variation of about 6% efficiency difference between the two brews, from 67% to 73% assuming exact same grain bills and volume into fermenter.

Please describe your mashout procedure vs non mashout procedure. In particular do you stir before pulling the bag, but not the other. Is the mashout time included in your mashing time, or no? If not, try non mashout next time but stir after the usual time period then let it sit a little longer to account for the additional time.

Hey Priceless. Apologies for the tardiness of my reply.

My BH efficiencies for the two batches were 75 and 70% with and without mash-out respectively. ( the grain bill was reduced from the author's recipe to allow for my anticipated efficiency of 75%)

The mashes were as follows
With mash out
Dough in stirring constantly
Sacc rest at 154 for 60 mins
Raise temp to 170 over 9 mins while stirring constantly
Rest at 170 for 10 mins
Stir the mash and pull the bag draining in the usual manner

Without mash out
Dough in stirring constantly
Sacc rest at 154 for 60 mins
Stir the mash and pull the bag draining in the usual manner

There is certainly an extra time in the mash out during which starches may be being converted. My preboil volume was 0.2 gallons less with no mash out. I squeezed in the usual way. Perhaps the grain was holding on to more wort at a cooler temp and this could be the bigger issue.

I certainly don't want to get hung up on eking out a few measly efficiency points for a lot of extra work; grain is cheap, but reproducibility is important and I seem to be able to achieve this more predictably with a mash out step. Would appreciate any tips or pointers. Thanks again