India Pale Ale Bittering Problem

[celtic_man81]

I'm trying to make an India pale ale, but I am having a problem bittering it up. Here's the recipe, somehow I doubt I need all of those bittering hops:

Style: India Pale Ale
Type: Extract w/grain Size: 20 liters
Color: 12 HCU (~8 SRM) Bitterness: 16 IBU
OG: 1.047 FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 4.6% v/v (3.6% w/w)

Grain: 1 lb. Belgian pale
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
0.2 lb. Dextrin Malt
Boil: minutes SG 1.316 3 liters
5 lb. Amber dry malt extract

Hops: 2 oz. Columbia (10% AA, 60 min.)
2 oz. Magnum (12% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Spalt (6.75% AA, 30 min.)
1 oz. Goldings (Kent) (5% AA, 10 min.)

 

[the_bird]

Your calcs are WAY off - you've got a lot more than 16 IBUs in there. Not sure how many (don't have BeerSmith in front of me), but you have a lot more than 16. IPAs SHOULD be bitter and hoppy, but you need to know what that number really is before judging whether you have too many bittering hops or not.

 

[dcbrewmeister]

How do you make an IPA with a btterness of only 16 IBU's?

You sure you're not trying to make a Pale Ale?

If you are trying to make an IPA, then yes you will need all those hops.

FWIW - IPA's start their bitterness at 40 IBU's

Quick calc is 247.5 IBU's

 

[celtic_man81]

Your calcs are WAY off - you've got a lot more than 16 IBUs in there. Not sure how many (don't have BeerSmith in front of me), but you have a lot more than 16. IPAs SHOULD be bitter and hoppy, but you need to know what that number really is before judging whether you have too many bittering hops or not.

I'm using this program: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator. I think think perhaps by 16 IBUs, it really means 160, but I'm not sure.

 

[the_bird]

2oz of Columbus in a 20 liter batch gets you north of 80 IBUs by itself (as per ProMash); something's wrong either with the program or your data input.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Your OG is way low, too, for an IPA. I think what you're shooting for is a pale ale, not an IPA. I would hop it in the high 30's to low 40's at that abv. I'd also move the 10m addition to 0m, but that's just me.

 

[david_42]

Here's your problem:

Boil: minutes SG 1.316 3 liters

?? Try changing that to 10 L or even 20L if your pot can handle it.

 

[celtic_man81]

OK, I've changed the recipe. I'm assuming the 4 IBU really means 40. As for the ABV, I want to keep it that way because I don't want it too high (I'm trying to sort of model this off of Alexander Keith's).

Style: India Pale Ale
Type: Extract w/grain, Size: 20 liters
Color: 12 HCU (~8 SRM), Bitterness: 4 IBU
OG: 1.047 FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 4.6% v/v (3.6% w/w)

Grain: 1 lb. Belgian pale
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
0.2 lb. Dextrin Malt

Boil: minutes SG 1.316 3 liters
5 lb. Amber dry malt extract

Hops:
1 oz. Columbia (10% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Spalt (6.75% AA, 10 min.)

 

[the_bird]

IPAs want some hop flavor, not just bitterness. You want some more flavor additions at the end, maybe some added at flameout for aroma (they won't add any bitterness). You can actually cut back on the bittering hops and add a lot more flavor hops at around 15 - 20 minutes, gives you a lot of flavor to the brew.

At present, this is definately in pale-ale turf, though.

 

[celtic_man81]

Oh, Keith's is 5%, I'll change that then

 

[celtic_man81]

OK, this seems to look a little better:

Style: India Pale Ale
Type: Extract w/grain, Size: 20 liters
Color: 13 HCU (~9 SRM), Bitterness: 6 IBU
OG: 1.051, FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 5.0% v/v (3.9% w/w)

Grain: 1 lb. Belgian pale
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
0.2 lb. Dextrin Malt

Boil: minutes SG 1.339 3 liters
5.4 lb. Amber dry malt extract

Hops:
2 oz. Columbia (10% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Bramling Cross (6% AA, 10 min.)
1 oz. Challenger (0 min.)

 

[the_bird]

Fix the boil volume and see what the numbers look like; even with that low a volume, I can't believe that this beer would only be 6 IBUs.

Better yet, download Beersmith or Promash (both have free trials) and see what the numbers look like in those programs.

 

[celtic_man81]

I also forgot to factor in the carboy, which will bring around 30 L, so I will have to size up the recipe a bit.

 

[celtic_man81]

Fix the boil volume and see what the numbers look like; even with that low a volume, I can't believe that this beer would only be 6 IBUs.

I've fixed the boil vol. to 5L, and like I said I think that 6 is really a 60.

 

[the_bird]

I woudn't make that assumption. There's no reason to believe that the program just randomly dropped a zero off the end. Run it through another program (BeerSmith is very easy to use), and see what the numbers look like.

 

[celtic_man81]

I woudn't make that assumption. There's no reason to believe that the program just randomly dropped a zero off the end. Run it through another program (BeerSmith is very easy to use), and see what the numbers look like.

I've used Qbrew, and it seems to confirm my assumption.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Even 5 liters is a VERY concentrated boil. Can you boil more than that? Say, 10-12 liters? I'm sure this is the reason for your odd bitterness calculations.

EDIT: I plugged some of these into BeerSmith - here are the results:

5L boil volume, 5 lbs amber DME for everything.

2 oz Magnum 60 mins
2 oz Columbia 60 mins
1 oz Spalt 30 mins
178.0 IBU

1 oz Columbia 60 mins
1 oz Spalt 10 mins
29.9 IBU

2 oz Columbia 60 mins
1 oz Bramling Cross 10 mins
55.2 IBU

What are you trying to do here? It seems like you're stabbing in the dark - randomly picking hops varieties. Your first recipe was a bit over-hopped, IMHO. The second two aren't quite hoppy enough. For a good IPA, you'll need a healthy bittering hops addition (2-3 oz of Magnum or Columbia), at least another good dose of hops at around 20 minutes (primarily use your flavoring hops here), and a hefty amount of aroma hops at flameout (again, the flavoring hops).

 

[celtic_man81]

Even 5 liters is a VERY concentrated boil. Can you boil more than that? Say, 10-12 liters? I'm sure this is the reason for your odd bitterness calculations.

Ahh! You have just saved my brew! thanks!

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Ahh! You have just saved my brew! thanks!

Read my edit above - 5L still gets you more IBUs than you were calculating. I'd still recommend boiling at least twice that.

 

[celtic_man81]

Read my edit above - 5L still gets you more IBUs than you were calculating. I'd still recommend boiling at least twice that.

I've changed the boil size to 15L (to save cash). I might be able to get away with adding 1 oz of bittering hops, as for the flavoring, I'll do what you said. And yes I am sort of 'stabbing in the dark', so, I'll check out other IPAs to get a better idea. Thanks.

 

[celtic_man81]

Alright, here's an update, this should be ok. If not, let me know, thanks. Oh, and if the numbers seem a little funky, it's because I am converting it from metric.

Style: India Pale Ale
Type: Extract w/grain, Size: 30 liters
Color: 13 HCU (~9 SRM), Bitterness: 55 IBU
OG: 1.050, FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 5.0% v/v (3.9% w/w)

Grain: 0.99 lb. Belgian pale
0.51 lb. Vienna Malt
0.20 lb. Dextrin Malt

Boil: minutes SG 1.101 15 liters
8.31 lb. Amber dry malt extract

Hops: 3 oz. Columbia (10% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Fuggles (5% AA, 30 min.)
1 oz. Bramling Cross (6% AA, 10 min.)
1 oz. Challenger (aroma)

 

[Yuri_Rage]

That looks reasonable. It should be a decent IPA. Consider dry hopping with some Challenger or Bramling Cross. Realize that this should probably be a partial mash with the grains you've selected. Steeping 2-row does almost no good, and Vienna could stand to be mashed as well.

I put the whole recipe into BeerSmith - here's what I came up with:

Batch Size: 7.93 gal
Boil Size: 3.96 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

8 lbs 5.0 oz Amber Dry Extract (12.5 SRM) Dry Extract
15.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain
8.2 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain
3.2 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain
3.00 oz Columbia [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 40.3 IBU
1.00 oz Bramling Cross [6.00%] (20 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
1.00 oz Fuggles [5.00%] (20 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
1.00 oz Challenger [7.50%] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 %
Bitterness: 49.3 IBU
Est Color: 9.0 SRM

 

[peiboy]

Have you tried this recipie yet? how close did you come to Keith's? I am originally from PEI and I cannot get it here in Ohio. I am only able to get a 24 every 12 months.

If it was close, I will try it for my next brew.

Jonathan