Increasing kettle hops while managing IBUs

[FatDragon]

Since the turn of 2015 I've made some bad beers, and I'm trying to use the 2015-2016 school year (I'm a teacher) to rein in my process and develop a couple good recipes. I bottled an APA on Wednesday which came out of the fermenter tasting promising, and yesterday was brewday on an IPA. I'm a bit skeptical of my recipe, though: the hop schedule offered 26.5 IBUs from a modest bittering charge, plus another 26.5 IBUs from a three ounce whirlpool addition. I've got three ounces scheduled for a dry hop and could bump that up a bit further, but I'm skeptical about three ounces of whirlpool hops being enough late kettle hops for a hoppy IPA. Between bittering and whirlpool, the IPA only has one more ounce of kettle hops than the APA, despite another 20+ IBUs.

What does everyone do recipewise to ensure that you get enough kettle hops in your IPAs without dialing up the bitterness too much? Should I give up on the whirlpool, or chill my beer down to 80C/~180F before adding them in order to minimize bitterness from them? If you use late boil hops and whirlpool hops, how do you prevent the late boil hops from isomerizing and producing too many IBU's during the whirlpool?

 

[iijakii]

I personally love my IPAs super bitter and dry. I never can have enough. What I do is use bittering hops to get my full IBU contribution and then treat whirlpools as flavor/aroma only. Any added IBU is just a welcomed bonus.

 

[ong]

Yeah, I agree. I love the whirlpool for flavor and aroma, but I think the IBU contribution can be ignored.

 

[FatDragon]

How do you guys do your whirlpool? Right in at flameout and give it a good stir, or are you waiting or chilling down to a certain temperature before adding your whirlpool charge? I put them in a few minutes after flameout so they're starting aroud 95C and ending around 80-85C, but maybe I should chill a bit before they go in?

I made one IPA with nothing but whirlpool hops. Even with 4-5 ounces of dry hops, it wasn't very aromatic because the hops were oldish and poorly stored (my bad), but it was super bitter just from three or four ounces in the whirlpool.

I personally dig really bitter beers as well, but most of the people who drink my beer don't. A 55 IBU IPA is manageable for some palate training, while an IBU bomb would just turn them off.

 

[The_Glue]

I am slowly gravitating towards lower and lower amounts of bittering hops in the boil. I realized that I don't really like the bitterness of IPAs but I love the fruity, hoppy thing.

 

[FatDragon]

I am slowly gravitating towards lower and lower amounts of bittering hops in the boil. I realized that I don't really like the bitterness of IPAs but I love the fruity, hoppy thing.

The first IPA I really wanted to emulate after I started brewing was Brewers & Union Handwerk IPA. 5.5%, lightly carbed, very mild bitterness and a pleasant but not overpowering hoppy aroma and flavor. It definitely drank like an IPA as opposed to a pale ale, but where some IPAs are like a delicious steak - meaty enough that one is plenty - this was super tasty and quaffable, a nice sessionable all-day beer.

I don't dislike 7.5%, 85 IBU but-let's-not-call-it-an-imperial-just-yet IPAs, in fact they're some of my favorite beers to order at bars when I'm back stateside, but the pleasure of a highly-drinkable all-day 40-55 IBU IPA is well worth pursuing.

 

[Mer-man]

I am slowly gravitating towards lower and lower amounts of bittering hops in the boil. I realized that I don't really like the bitterness of IPAs but I love the fruity, hoppy thing.

I agree, I have been also working on making beers with substantial maltiness but with big hop flavor, sans extreme bitterness and alcohol.:rockin:

 

[beerkench]

I agree, I have been also working on making beers with substantial maltiness but with big hop flavor, sans extreme bitterness and alcohol.:rockin:

Me too. I'm finding the flame out hops add plenty of bitterness and I'm therefore backing off on the bittering additions. With a 30 min hopstand, a 30 min bittering addition can almost be compared to a 60 min addition.
I think throwing in 2-3 oz of high alpha hops at flameout and not including the IBU's from that in my experience usually results in overly bitter and unbalanced beer.

 

[m00ps]

I routinely use over 10oz in the whirlpool alone, usually half at flameout half once the temp drops to 180F and the bitterness imparted is very little. This IMO is the only way to get a pungent commercial hop character. I keep boil additions to a minimum though. I dont think the bitterness from 1oz in a hopstand would be comparable to a 30min addition or my IPAs would dissolve my teeth.

 

[beerkench]

I routinely use over 10oz in the whirlpool alone, usually half at flameout half once the temp drops to 180F and the bitterness imparted is very little. This IMO is the only way to get a pungent commercial hop character. I keep boil additions to a minimum though. I dont think the bitterness from 1oz in a hopstand would be comparable to a 30min addition or my IPAs would dissolve my teeth.

5 or 10 gallons?


Sent from hell
using Home Brew

 

[IslandLizard]

How do you guys do your whirlpool? Right in at flameout and give it a good stir, or are you waiting or chilling down to a certain temperature before adding your whirlpool charge? I put them in a few minutes after flameout so they're starting aroud 95C and ending around 80-85C, but maybe I should chill a bit before they go in?

Yeah, I'd chill to a lower temp before adding.

The temperature at which you start adding your whirlpool hops surely makes all the difference and adds different character. Allegedly anything added above 190°F (88°C) will still have alpha acids isomerized. Around 180°F (82°C) that should become very low to nil. Higher temps also drive off more volatile aromatics and faster, so after the boil is done, chill a bit and keep the lid on.

Under 160°F (71°C) extraction and solubility of the hop oils may start to suffer, but longer contact time and good agitation can make up for it. Don't know where extraction becomes too low to be practical.

I've been adding whirlpool hops at 180-170°F (82-77°C) and now recirculate for an hour usually, sometimes longer. Often in 2 or more additions, one at the beginning, the rest at timed intervals later and at lower temps. Trying to mimic the time things take in a commercial brewery. Those huge vats don't get chilled that quickly, and all that time hops are in there doing what they're expected to do: give off their goodness. Like a slowly cooked soup.

My thoughts are there are different kinds of "hop" perceptions. Bitterness by isomerization of alpha acids is the given known, but flameout hops, whirlpool hops, and dry hops each add a character of their own, a certain bite that could be confused with or even perceived as "bitterness." It maybe an individual experience, but I notice it. And I love super hoppy and super bitter IPAs, haven't had one I didn't enjoy because it was too strong in any of those departments. Some are more mellow and some are kinda harsh with anything in between.

 

[murphyslaw]

+1 to what islandlizard said.

I now do a hopstand around 170 and ignore the IBUs beersmith tells me i get from that. So i make sure to get my 60-70 ibus from my boil additions, then go heavy on the hopstand and dry hopping.

OP, if you put the whirlpool additions in at flameout you're probably okay, because youll extract bitterness at such a high tmep. But if you cooled it a bit first you might have an apa level bitterness.

 

[chickypad]

I now do a hopstand around 170 and ignore the IBUs beersmith tells me i get from that. So i make sure to get my 60-70 ibus from my boil additions, then go heavy on the hopstand and dry hopping. .

This is what I'm doing now mostly because it seems to preserve the most aroma. I have done whirpools hot right at flameout though, and like some of the other guys I don't perceive nearly the IBU contribution as is suggested in the calculators/articles.

 

[m00ps]

i agree totally that even if you get a decent amount of IBUs from post boil additions, the end perceived bitterness is very minimal. I have had a number of people that "dont like IPAs" ask for seconds of IPAs with over 1lb/5gal of hops in them

 

[FatDragon]

It probably won't be for another month or two, but I'll try to remember this next time I make an IPA. Get all my IBU's from the boil and do a bigger hopstand after a quick chill to 180. Thanks for all the suggestions and input. Keep em coming if you have anything else to say!

 

[Queequeg]

I stand below 80c just to make IBU calculations easier especially since there are any decent ways of estimating ibus from temperatures below boiling