In the doghouse

[tuckferrorists]

Please remember that the conservative opinions we have about alcohol here in the US are not the same worldwide. Canadians are a lot more liberal on many issues.

I agree but it's still illegal. And you know that if something is illegal until a certain age, it's a psychological thing to a teenager. They are tempted because it's something they aren't supposed to do and they'll want to exploit it if they're given an environment where it's ok to break the law.

 

[Chris_Dog]

I don't feel strongly enough about this either way to get in a debate about it.

In reality parents are going to raise kids how they see fit. Right or wrong, legal or illegal.

 

[tuckferrorists]

I'm not so sure about that. There is such a thing as responsible parents who let their own children consume alcohol in a controlled manner. For example, a Dad who lets his young, curious child take a sip of his beer will usually find that the kid spits it out and vows to never drink beer again.

I'd much rather train a child to respect and understand alcohol. But then again I don't think I'd ever host a party where teenagers were allowed to get drunk. Allowing your own child to consume alcohol in a controlled environment and respectful manner: responsible. Hosting teenage drunk parties: irresponsible.

My 2 cents.

I don't think Finger was talking about his child just having a sip when they're handing over keys and his child is the responsible one when he's not puking.

 

[tuckferrorists]

For the other kids, yes, it is Illegal, but not for his own kid. At least not where I am from. Here in Washington state, a minor can drink if in the presence of their parents. I let my brother in law start drinking before he was legal, at family gatherings, when his mom was there, and he not only learned to avoid nasty beer, he also learned to drink responsibly.

You need to check on your laws, because I'm a bartender here in Louisiana and have been for 5 years. Louisiana is a state that is pretty liberal when it comes to drinking laws. This state held out for a few years when the national government made the states change the drinking age to 21.

Anyway, a parent can buy a drink for their child if the child is 18 or older. I just recently had to renew my liquor license, so I can verify this.

 

[MikeFlynn74]

tuckferrorists

All alcohol laws in the US are based on religious reasons. Called Blue laws.

As for Europe where "minors" are allowed to drink- There is a much lower percentage of alcoholism.

Not saying its ok to give kids booze- My nefews who are 16 love to try the stuff I make. They only get enough to taste. But they already know the difference in crap and quality.

 

[brett]

You need to check on your laws, because I'm a bartender here in Louisiana and have been for 5 years. Louisiana is a state that is pretty liberal when it comes to drinking laws. This state held out for a few years when the national government made the states change the drinking age to 21.

Anyway, a parent can buy a drink for their child if the child is 18 or older. I just recently had to renew my liquor license, so I can verify this.

RCW 66.44.270, Section 3 details that "...liquor given or permitted to be given to a person under the age of twenty-one years by a parent or guardian and consumed in the presence of the parent or guardian..." is not regulated by Washington state law.

 

[tuckferrorists]

Blue laws are understood as not being able to buy alcohol during a certain time i.e. on sundays, not that you have to be 21 to buy.

 

[tuckferrorists]

RCW 66.44.270, Section 3 details that "...liquor given or permitted to be given to a person under the age of twenty-one years by a parent or guardian and consumed in the presence of the parent or guardian..." is not regulated by Washington state law.

cool cool, i'm surprised there isn't any restriction on specifics. Based on the law, you could legaly give it to a 1 year old.

 

[Rick_R]

Blue laws are understood as not being able to buy alcohol

Not to pick a nit (or, actually, I guess it is) but blue laws are not just about alcohol. Lived where someone was arrested for selling pantyhose on Sunday (1978ish). That particular arrest was not for religious reasons (though the law's origin was) but was carried out during a struggle to keep Walmart closed on Sunday.

Rick

 

[tuckferrorists]

yeah, blue laws can also apply to hunting and a lot of other stuff

 

[quickerNu]

Blue laws keep me from having to work on Sunday! All bike and car dealerships used to be forced closed on Sunday, now they changed it to 1 day a week of the dealership's choosing. Our shop is open for clothes and parts, but no one can answer any questions about bikes.

On the other part of this discussion- I never drank until I was over 18 (and started working at a Harley shop). I was big into sports, and my parents had let me have a SIP of beer here or there when I was a kid. Didn't like it. I never went too crazy drinking after my first time getting drunk- when I found out I had the alcohol tolerance of a dockworker. While in college, I took my little brother (16-17 at the time) to a few parties, would let him have a few good beers, critique them and such. A few years later he decided to pass up a full ride to a major university to be in a band and party, and drinks at least a case of BMC a week.

Who knows how things would have turned out? Dunno, but I do feel bad for introducing him to alcohol before he was of age now.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

In Wisconsin a parent can give their minor child alcohol if they wish. Doesn't matter if it is at home, tevern, whatever. Same goes for a spouse, if one is over 21, he/she can buy alcohol for the underage spouse.

 

[rabidgerbil]

In Wisconsin a parent can give their minor child alcohol if they wish. Doesn't matter if it is at home, tevern, whatever. Same goes for a spouse, if one is over 21, he/she can buy alcohol for the underage spouse.

Here in Washington it only applies to a private residence. They are specific in the law about the fact that it does not apply to licensed alcohol venues (bars, taverns, restaurants, etc.).

 

[MikeFlynn74]

Hell here in Alaska there are certian restraunts that you cant even take your kids into after 7pm. Isnt that wonderful

 

[tuckferrorists]

wow, that would be awesome, i guess the only place you could do that here would be go to a casino and eat at a restaurant there

 

[uglygoat]

blue laws should be repealed like the jim crowe laws were decades ago.

i grew up in an irish-catholic family that embraced alcohol as something sacred. there's those that abuse it, and have to bail out and climb on the wagon, but the vast majority can imbibe a few qualtiy pints and enjoy the company.

my kid knows a fair bit about beer, ingredients, etc. she also won't touch a drop of it for some reason. mary you want a beer. she says no. i'll about **** myself when she says yes....


:fro:

 

[jezter6]

Alcohol responsibility is the same as firearms safety.

A kid who's parents hide guns behind shiny glass cases and yell like they're touching a lit stove if they touch the gun cabinet are not doing their child a service.

Teaching firearm (and alcohol) responsibility young sets a precedence for a lifetime. I've handled guns since I was about 6, and I'll be the last person on my block to accidentally shoot someone. But someone who never touched a gun in their life will probably kill someone in their lifetime.

 

[tuckferrorists]

that's outrageous. If it's the same then, handling a gun is like handling a hand grenade. Do you want your kid to invite his friends over and give them all hand grenades so they can properly know how to use one? Of course not. Then it's not the same

 

[shafferpilot]

that's outrageous. If it's the same then, handling a gun is like handling a hand grenade. Do you want your kid to invite his friends over and give them all hand grenades so they can properly know how to use one? Of course not. Then it's not the same

Wow, we're getting WAY out in left field now! handgrenades? c'mon try to stay on topic. I think the smartest things that's been said in this thread is, "You can give them the tools, it's up to them to decide how they use them". We definitely need to try and give our kids as much information as possible. If that means direct exposure, fine. If that means words, great. Just don't leave them completely in the dark. Being THAT over-protective is surely not the right answer.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

that's outrageous. If it's the same then, handling a gun is like handling a hand grenade. Do you want your kid to invite his friends over and give them all hand grenades so they can properly know how to use one? Of course not. Then it's not the same

Sorry, I disagree. I do think that supervised familiarity and education is the way to go with both firearms and alcohol. Let them get over their curiosity, but at the same time teach responsibility. But I would only do that with my own kids, not the neighborhood. Those other kids are none of my business, just as my own kids are nobody else's business.

 

[tuckferrorists]

it has gotten way . I was just originally upset because Fingers' allowing his kid and his friends to drink at his house wasn't because of an educational experience. It's a party. Because he's scared they will go out and drink in the woods so he allows them to party at his house and get drunk. Then he was proud of his child because he was not one of the ones "puking". It's showing that he thinks underage drinking is OK. In my household, I was raised that drinking in high school wasn't even an option because I knew the wrath that I would come home to. Don't be "scared" Finger, be a responsible parent.

I know education is one thing. Hell, I can't wait till the day that I can teach my kids about the wonderful world of beer and how to handle it responsibly, but throwing underage drinking parties at your house should never be even a reasonable excuse for "education".

 

[tuckferrorists]

Am I going crazy? Am I the only one who thinks this is wrong?

 

[MikeFlynn74]

His kid- ok. Others not.

In Alaska its jail time mandatory.

 

[Fingers]

Don't be "scared" Finger, be a responsible parent.

In Manitoba the legal age to drink is 18 years. He and his friends will be 18 in less than six months. At that time I will have no control or say over what he (and they) do. They take turns at each parent's house, and yes, it is a party. It is a party in my home where my other two younger children watch TV and go to bed at a reasonable hour and have no trouble sleeping. The boys shoot a little pool and play X-box and have a few drinks. One fellow went overboard once and was sick the next day. This is not a blow-out where I 'hang' with the boys and play the cool Dad. This is a very controlled environment where there is no mistake who is in charge. It has been thusly for all my children's entire lives.

The law be damned. It's designed to allow charges to be brought against people who predate on children and to provide a guideline for parents who don't have the judgement and strength of will to effectively parent without someone telling them how it should be done. Everyone that is at my house has the knowledge and approval of their parents and that's good enough for me.

 

[shafferpilot]

It's certainly a very sensitive issue. In some communities neighborhood parties like the one mentioned are normal and accepted. In others, it's completely out of the question and criminal. One of the most amazing qualities of the US is the incredible diversity of our society. That's partly why our country was founded as a federation of individual states. Our founding fathers knew that people lived life in different ways, with different values and different customs. The individual nature of our states has to some extent vanished, but the theory still holds true. He did say that the party was endorsed by the other parents. I wouldn't be willing to host a party like that, but I understand why he felt it was acceptable given the individual circumstances. And I'm quite sure that I don't have any right to say otherwise. We just don't have the full story. To really know enough to cast judgement, we would have to live there; be raising OUR kids there, directly observe the nature of the party, etc. We just don't have all of that information. But I hope we all have the desire to learn and understand (as much as possible) about other people's lives..... And to think twice or three times about condemning others. After all, blindly enforcing one person's beliefs and values on another leads to rediculous ideas such as prohibition, state endorsed religion, opressive gun control laws, etc, etc. It isn't long before something that YOU think is fine get's the axe...... something to think about.

 

[tuckferrorists]

Don't worry Finger. I saw it before you edited it.
No biggie though. I just have my opinion. And I'm sorry if I stepped on your toes. I just feel so damn strong about it. I'm still young and my wife and I have no kids yet. I'm still working on tolerance so please bear with me.

 

[Fingers]

Don't worry Finger. I saw it before you edited it.
No biggie though. I just have my opinion. And I'm sorry if I stepped on your toes. I just feel so damn strong about it. I'm still young and my wife and I have no kids yet. I'm still working on tolerance so please bear with me.

Sorry, I thought better of it and took it out because it was a cheap shot. I've had a couple of beers myself and forgot my manners. I shouldn't have belittled you.

If you feel so strongly about it, there's probably a good chance that we'll never agree. I firmly believe it's the right thing to do, in moderation. It will be a moot point in a few months anyway. Hopefully by then they'll all have enough supervised experience to be able to go it alone and not hurt themselves.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

I'd like to point out where each of you are from: Fingers is from Manitoba, and Tuck is from Louisiana. I dare say that you each are products of your respective environments, and your opinions on this subject seem to reflect that. I am not making a judgement on this in any way, just an observation-people from the Bible Belt tend to be much more conservative with regards to alcohol consumption than those of us in the northern states and Canada. And the local laws seem to reflect that.
My point? You guys are simply not going to agree, but that's ok, you are each entitled to your own opinion, and to your credit you have kept it respectful. Time for a group hug........


And a beer.

 

[sAvAgE]

Did you ask the wife if she could get you a beer for after dinner ???

That is just something that I would do

 

[krispy d]

d*mn, my five year old can pour a perfect pint!