I'm losing my mind over this

[LovesIPA]

Cloromine cant be filterd with a simple carbon filter nor will it boil off. You can get rid of it with campden tablets or a really expensive filter.

I use a glacier water vending machine. I don't know how effective they are at purifying water.

OP maybe i missed it but how much iron is in your water?

I would assume close to zero, but I guess the only way to know is to send a sample of the purified water off to ward labs.

Co2 isnt very reactive but carbonic acid is. Mettalic taste WILL be more pronounced once carbonated.

Just for kicks, I put a couple gallons of purified water into a keg and carbonated it. It did not pick up the taste at all. Whatever it is, it's specific to beer.

This stands out to me. These 2 batches were kegged in the same kegs where you've been finding the off flavors and carbonated with the same CO2 source?

Yes, identical process. As soon as I went back and looked at my logs, I realized there has to be a connection. It would suck to have to throw out my yeast library though.

You said the taste is "metallic." Is there a way you can have a few other independent beer drinkers confirm that. Perhaps a brewclub? Or a BJCP judge?

I've taken it to a LHBS and a brewpub/LHBS. They said they liked it and didn't taste anything wrong.

As mentioned before, carbonic acid has a metallic taste. You sure it's not that?

Without knowing what it tastes like, I can't be sure. But I didn't pick it up in the carbonated water.

What kind of chiller are you using? Do you soak it in Starsan for long lengths of time?

Copper immersion chiller. No starsan, I just put it in the kettle with about 15 minutes left in the boil.

 

[LovesIPA]

I cant believe this thread is still going.

I "cant" believe you're still reading it.

 

[coolharry]

This is a huge stretch I know, but is there any chance that the off flavor is coming from the glasses your dispensing the beer into? I'd assume you took a growler or bottle to the guys a the lhbs when they said it tasted fine, so maybe there's some residue or something from a dishwasher?

 

[LovesIPA]

This is a huge stretch I know, but is there any chance that the off flavor is coming from the glasses your dispensing the beer into?

I could take a clean glass out of the cupboard, and thoroughly hand wash it until it sparkled. It wouldn't help.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Perhaps you mentioned doing this earlier, if so I apologize for missing it, but have you completely disassembled your disconnects and cleaned them? I recall an eerily similar thread on here a while back where the poster had great beer going into the kegs every time, but they then became contaminated within a short time after being tapped. Turned out there was some nastiness living in his gas disconnect. After he cleaned or replaced it (I can't remember which), the problem disappeared.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Pour off about 6 or 8 Oz from the keg into a glass. Let it get flat for about 30 minutes, swirl it etc. Pour off a fresh sample. Compare the two.

If the taste is not there in the original sample then you know it's the carbonation.

 

[LovesIPA]

Perhaps you mentioned doing this earlier, if so I apologize for missing it, but have you completely disassembled your disconnects and cleaned them? I recall an eerily similar thread on here a while back where the poster had great beer going into the kegs every time, but they then became contaminated within a short time after being tapped. Turned out there was some nastiness living in his gas disconnect. After he cleaned or replaced it (I can't remember which), the problem disappeared.

I actually did that last night. I tore apart everything on the gas side from the regulator (which I already cleaned) to the kegs. I soaked everything in PBW + hot water, ran a brush through the QD bodies and rinsed thoroughly. I also disassembled the manifold and cleaned it before putting it all back together.

So that should rule that out, hopefully.

Pour off about 6 or 8 Oz from the keg into a glass. Let it get flat for about 30 minutes, swirl it etc. Pour off a fresh sample. Compare the two.

If the taste is not there in the original sample then you know it's the carbonation.

I actually took a keg out of the keezer and let it warm up. A couple times a day, I shake it and vent the pressure. It's about flat now and I'm going to hook it back up to see if the flavor changed at all.

Also:

Instead of bottling, I decided to naturally carbonate a batch in the keg. I kegged a chocolate porter today - into a THOROUGHLY cleaned and sanitized keg. This will at least rule out everything that touches the keezer. If this doesn't come out right, I will bottle the next batch.

God I hate bottling lol

 

[nhindian]

I actually did that last night. I tore apart everything on the gas side from the regulator (which I already cleaned) to the kegs. I soaked everything in PBW + hot water, ran a brush through the QD bodies and rinsed thoroughly. I also disassembled the manifold and cleaned it before putting it all back together.

So that should rule that out, hopefully.



I actually took a keg out of the keezer and let it warm up. A couple times a day, I shake it and vent the pressure. It's about flat now and I'm going to hook it back up to see if the flavor changed at all.

Also:

Instead of bottling, I decided to naturally carbonate a batch in the keg. I kegged a chocolate porter today - into a THOROUGHLY cleaned and sanitized keg. This will at least rule out everything that touches the keezer. If this doesn't come out right, I will bottle the next batch.

God I hate bottling lol

Why wouldn't you just bottle right away... The only thing you are eliminating are the tap lines and carbonation which are easy to isolate already.

 

[chickypad]

I soaked everything in PBW + hot water, ran a brush through the QD bodies and rinsed thoroughly.

Are you uncsrewing the QD's at the top and taking them apart to clean? The first time I did that was after a year or so of kegging, not realizing they actually came apart like that. I was horrified at the gunk.

 

[BreezyBrew]

One thing that I noticed with my system is if I force carbed, and it wasn't carbed enough, and I cranked the pressure back up, I got carbonic bite. Now I just put it to 30 psi, leave it for 3 days and the put it on the serving psi. Works good for American ales around 2.4 volumes.

 

[LovesIPA]

Are you uncsrewing the QD's at the top and taking them apart to clean? The first time I did that was after a year or so of kegging, not realizing they actually came apart like that. I was horrified at the gunk.

Yep, I completely took them apart. There are five pieces total, including the o-ring.

One thing that I noticed with my system is if I force carbed, and it wasn't carbed enough, and I cranked the pressure back up, I got carbonic bite. Now I just put it to 30 psi, leave it for 3 days and the put it on the serving psi. Works good for American ales around 2.4 volumes.

It spends about the same total amount of time carbing, but they sometimes sit at 12 psi or so for a few hours while I'm serving out of the other kegs. I would really like to get a separate chest freezer and CO2 tank so I can carbonate separately, but I'm already up to two chest freezers and SWMBO is going to draw the line somewhere, especially if I continue to make crappy beer.

 

[Joe Dragon]

IMO, you have an infection problem related to your yeast. You state you've had drinkable batches when using dry yeast but continual metallic tastes when building up from slants.

Infections don't always win the battle but they always win the war. Those bacteria will keep working after the yeast are finished.

Also, many off flavors (or flavors in general) taste much different flat than carbonated. Just taste a beer bulk aged but flat compared to the same beer carbonated. It's a world of difference.

 

[grathan]

Could also be that the recipes aren't that good? Since they've all been implicated, it's tough to rule this out.

 

[LovesIPA]

Also, many off flavors (or flavors in general) taste much different flat than carbonated. Just taste a beer bulk aged but flat compared to the same beer carbonated. It's a world of difference.

Yeah that's kind of why I started the thread.

But I agree that it points towards a problem with the slants.

Could also be that the recipes aren't that good? Since they've all been implicated, it's tough to rule this out.

It's easy to rule it out because I brew clones, proven HBT recipes (like Oktoberfast), and stuff I make up on brew day. It happens to all of them.

 

[jbaysurfer]

So all the batches that are bad had one yeast source and the only batches that were good had another yeast source?

Yeah, lets do another 75 posts worth of "absurd" advice.

 

[LovesIPA]

So all the batches that are bad had one yeast source and the only batches that were good had another yeast source?

Actually I found two batches in my other notebook that used yeast from slants and tasted normal.

 

[msujack]

Until you make a beer with new yeast, the yeast can't be ruled out. My understanding of yeast slants are that each vile is its own little world. You might have avoided something bad in 2 of the yeast viles, but it wound up in the rest. Without tearing apart the entire process again and again, I would buy fresh yeast and brew a new batch.

 

[m_stodd]

Wrong thread

 

[LovesIPA]

My homebrewer friend came over (he's been brewing since 1991), and he said it tastes like the beginning of an infection. He said it seemed much more likely to be a keg sanitation issue than infected slants, because the beer tastes fine out of the fermenter. He said that the cold water and oxyclean was probably not going to get all of the critters out of the corners.

The batch I just kegged I cleaned with hot water and PBW, so if he's right and it's not the slants, this batch should taste fine.

I guess I'll wait a couple of weeks to find out.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Besides the quick disconnects, have you taken off the posts and dip tubes and cleaned the seals?

 

[phuff7129]

One thing I have found with oxyclean is it does not work well with hard water. One time my softener had run out of salt and I had soaked some bottles overnight in oxy and they had a horrible film that did not want to come off. I wound up pitching all of the bottles. This has never happened with soft water.

 

[unionrdr]

Speaking of seals,I don't keg but I do have spigots on my fermenters. so I even soak & scrub the seals as well. Rinse it all,then soak in Starsan & re-assemble wet. But keg seals do have this stuff like Vasaline that you coat them with when assembling.

 

[Tombstone0]

I haven't seen this asked yet, are you purging your kegs with co2 after you fill them? If not, it could be oxidation.

 

[grathan]

Oxidation does take time to appear, so that could be it.

 

[LovesIPA]

Besides the quick disconnects, have you taken off the posts and dip tubes and cleaned the seals?

I completely disassemble the kegs and soak all the parts in oxyclean (for 24 hours) and then sanitizer right before I fill the keg.

One thing I have found with oxyclean is it does not work well with hard water. One time my softener had run out of salt and I had soaked some bottles overnight in oxy and they had a horrible film that did not want to come off. I wound up pitching all of the bottles. This has never happened with soft water.

I'm just going to stop using Oxyclean altogether and use hot water and PBW.

Speaking of seals,I don't keg but I do have spigots on my fermenters. so I even soak & scrub the seals as well. Rinse it all,then soak in Starsan & re-assemble wet. But keg seals do have this stuff like Vasaline that you coat them with when assembling.

It's keg lube, and I use that as well. Like I said, the keg gets completely disassembled, soaked in cleaner, sanitized, then re-assembled.

I haven't seen this asked yet, are you purging your kegs with co2 after you fill them? If not, it could be oxidation.

Yes, they're purged with CO2 and it's definitely not an oxidation flavor.

 

[bethebrew]

http://kotmf.com/articles/flavor.pdf

see Metallic flavor section of link.

Freshly scrubbed stainless steel that has not been passivated (oxidized)?

 

[arborman]

I "cant" believe you're still reading it.

I can't believe I'm still reading it either. Learn to be a bit more gracious to people trying to help

 

[bethebrew]

I can't believe I'm still reading it either. Learn to be a bit more gracious to people trying to help

RO water and Star-San have got to be a potent acidic metal dissolving mix.

Still, maybe it's the chloramines even with the RO. As one poster pointed out, the typical RO prefilter will remove chlorine, and not chloramine. There is a difference, and only a special prefilter designed to remove the chloramine will do the job.

OP aren't you in Sacramento? Your water may have chloramine added to it.

http://www.fountainofhealth.com/newsletters/2006/may2006.php

 

[jbaysurfer]

RO water and Star-San have got to be a potent acidic metal dissolving mix.

Still, maybe it's the chloramines even with the RO. As one poster pointed out, the typical RO prefilter will remove chlorine, and not chloramine. There is a difference, and only a special prefilter designed to remove the chloramine will do the job.

OP aren't you in Sacramento? Your water may have chloramine added to it.

http://www.fountainofhealth.com/newsletters/2006/may2006.php

Metal dissolving? I store RO/starsan in cornys all the time, haven't noticed any corrosion or etching. Am I screwing up my cornys? Only etching/dissolving I've ever seen from starsan is on plastic/rubber when the tubing/stopper was left in the solution for days on end.

 

[bethebrew]

Metal dissolving? I store RO/starsan in cornys all the time, haven't noticed any corrosion or etching. Am I screwing up my cornys? Only etching/dissolving I've ever seen from starsan is on plastic/rubber when the tubing/stopper was left in the solution for days on end.

Only time will tell.

Probably taste the metal long before noticing it is actually gone.