If first 15 minutes of mash was over 160 is it ruined?

Williams 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I have cooled over heated mash with ice. A 10 gallon mash will drop about by 4 deg F with a pound of ice in under a minute. .4 oz of ice per gallon of mash per deg F drop needed is a quick formula I use when needed. Never had fermentation problems with a quick correction.

pvpeacock said:
If it ever happens to you again, consider adding cold water
Click to expand...
 
catalanotte said:
I have cooled over heated mash with ice. A 10 gallon mash will drop about by 4 deg F with a pound of ice in under a minute. .4 oz of ice per gallon of mash per deg F drop needed is a quick formula I use when needed. Never had fermentation problems with a quick correction.
Click to expand...
Ice is nice!
 
Check out some of Brulosophy's experiments on Mash Temps. Most of their data suggests that even though the final gravity might be on the high side, tasters are not able to tell a difference between a high mash temp compared to a low mash temp. Your beer should be fine!

Here is an example: Mash Temperature: 147°F/64°C vs. 164°/73°C | exBEERiment Results!
 
Brewer that lives under a rock question: I couldn't help but notice that a quick iodine test wasn't suggested. Has the iodine test been relegated to the rather large pile of archaic techniques that used to be standard practice?
 
mrdauber64 said:
Check out some of Brulosophy's experiments on Mash Temps. Most of their data suggests that even though the final gravity might be on the high side, tasters are not able to tell a difference between a high mash temp compared to a low mash temp. Your beer should be fine!

Here is an example: Mash Temperature: 147°F/64°C vs. 164°/73°C | exBEERiment Results!
Click to expand...
That is very interesting. I pay strict attention to mash temperature and grain to water ratio. I have never missed a mash temp that much but I have had beers that finished high like 1.025 on a Wee Heavy and it was cloyingly sweet. However, this could be a result of the yeast not attenuating the wort fully for some reason. I'll have to check this out on a couple beers.
 
thefigure5 said:
Can you recommend some accurate thermometers? I've noticed as much as 10 degrees difference between thermometers.
Click to expand...
The Thermapen (the Mk4 model now) is the tool of choice among many of us. Fast and accurate.
They're pricey, yes, but if brewing (and cooking) is your forte you won't regret it. You'd never go back.

They go on sale from time to time, subscribe to their newsletter. They also have "open box sales," that's when I got mine. Box was brand new, and had never been opened. Instrument was brand new too.
This blue one is on sale right now.

There are many others at much more modest prices and may work just as well for you.
I used this $16-20 CDN DTQ450X one for years before, but the "6 seconds" lag time became a real deterrent. Although it seemed quite accurate, once stabilized, I also noticed something weird, while climbing to the actual (mash) temp the read out numbers always seemed the same ones. :bott:
I still use those CDN ones where temps aren't all that critical, like on my wort output from the plate chiller.
 
There is anothe experiment on brulosophy where the high temperature for the mash was 164. What the experiments showed is that even you will see lower ABV and different gravity readings, the end product of the high mash produced a tasty beer.
 
Mashing BIAB with finely ground grist will be different than traditional mashing, not so finely ground grist, in terms of how fast overall conversion happens. The denaturing of enzymes in heat is definitely not immediate, but more pronounced the higher you are above 150. I don't have specifics. But 10m at 170F near the beginning of the mash would be sub-optimal, as they say.

More importantly, speaking as one who likes to be able to reproduce things that work and avoid those that don't, you're really in trouble if this becomes the best beer you've ever had in your life and you go trying to recreate the magic!
 
I mash (low gravity/low alcohol) Milds between 160 and 162F. Mash temp definitely makes that beer carry herself.

But yeah, the difference between 152, 154, and 156F may be a lot more subtle.
One thing I learned, you need to come in high from the get-go. Then ease it downward if needed.
 
CantWinThisGame said:
Brewersfriend will calculate your strike water temp and volume for the perfect mash temp every single time. The most I was off was maybe 2 degrees from target rest! It's awesome.
Click to expand...

That calculator assumes everyones' mash tun has the same thermal mass, which is definitely not the case.
 
Brewed again today (Awesome advantage of small batches) went great hit temps, exact amount of boil off etc. I guess consistency comes with experience, hopefully soon lol
 
IslandLizard said:
[...]One thing I learned, you need to come in high from the get-go. Then ease it downward if needed.
Click to expand...

Why is that - seems like the unsafer choice of the two options (come in high vs come in low). Is this a system issue?

I rely on Beersmith3's strike temperature calculator which has been amazingly accurate for my system over the years. I take an IR gun average of the mlt interior and FB while using my 2' long digital thermometer to get the grain temperature from the middle of one of the buckets, plug those numbers in, and it bangs them against my equipment profile and spits out a strike temperature.

If I was winging it, I'd come in low rather than high. My herms rig can move the mash between 1 to 2°F per minute depending on the recipe - total mash mass varies, like the 1.108 beast I cooked up today moves a lot slower than then 60 point wheat beer I brewed last.

In any case, I always do a rest at 160-162°F just for grins, before proceeding to mash out and fly sparging. I think it makes for a bit more fermentable wort...

Cheers!
 
day_trippr said:
Why is that - seems like the unsafer choice of the two options (come in high vs come in low). Is this a system issue?

I rely on Beersmith3's strike temperature calculator which has been amazingly accurate for my system over the years. I take an IR gun average of the mlt interior and FB while using my 2' long digital thermometer to get the grain temperature from the middle of one of the buckets, plug those numbers in, and it bangs them against my equipment profile and spits out a strike temperature.

If I was winging it, I'd come in low rather than high. My herms rig can move the mash between 1 to 2°F per minute depending on the recipe - total mash mass varies, like the 1.108 beast I cooked up today moves a lot slower than then 60 point wheat beer I brewed last.

In any case, I always do a rest at 160-162°F just for grins, before proceeding to mash out and fly sparging. I think it makes for a bit more fermentable wort...

Cheers!
Click to expand...
What size kettles do you have? I would rather come in high because I can drop the mash temp with ice very quickly. Depending on the mash it can take much longer to raise it. I have 27 gal pots.
 
Triple 20 gallon kettles, bg14 burners on high pressure propane under hlt and bk.
I get what you're saying but there's heightened risk on that side of the equation :)

Cheers!
 
(sub-note, when using amylase, you need gluco in the fermenter...other wise you'll get an insanely high FG)
 
It's definitely worth taking an interest in calculating how to hit the right mash temp. I had a problem with efficiency and since I've started being more obsessive about getting the temp and pH in range things have improved significantly.
 
IslandLizard said:
The Thermapen (the Mk4 model now) is the tool of choice among many of us. Fast and accurate.
They're pricey, yes, but if brewing (and cooking) is your forte you won't regret it. You'd never go back.

They go on sale from time to time, subscribe to their newsletter. They also have "open box sales," that's when I got mine. Box was brand new, and had never been opened. Instrument was brand new too.
This blue one is on sale right now.
Click to expand...

I use the 600D from Thermoworks. Runs about $30, and is pretty quick. A few seconds for a reading. I actually got 3 of them - one for brewing, one for smoking / BBQ, and one for general cooking / grilling.
I'll verify calibration every so often on them by checking in boiling water and an ice slurry. If those temps are right, I presume the rest is correct through the range.
 
IslandLizard said:
One thing I learned, you need to come in high from the get-go. Then ease it downward if needed.
Click to expand...

I would think you'd risk denaturing beta by coming in high, at which point easing down would find less beta available.

1593612390733.png
 
day_trippr said:
Why is that - seems like the unsafer choice of the two options (come in high vs come in low). Is this a system issue?
Click to expand...
balrog said:
I would think you'd risk denaturing beta by coming in high, at which point easing down would find less beta available.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how fast enzymes denature. It's surely not instantaneous.

Best to hit it right on target temp, sure. At the most it's only a few (2-4) degrees higher for no more than 5 minutes, while doughing in. From there it's much faster and easier to bring it down than up, using a converted cooler mash tun. Haven't had any problems doing it that way or ending up with unintended highly unfermentable dextrin soup.

By using this method I seem to have much better control of FG and mouthfeel, as one would expect to get from a 156F or 158F mash. They're not all the same anymore.
 
I made an Amber (BIAB) last month and over heated my water to 169 degrees before I stirred in my grains. I didn’t realize my mistake until I checked the mash temperature and saw it was at 164 degrees.

The OG was 2 points low at 1.055 and the FG was 4 points low at 1.014.

The bear tastes great. I can’t tell any difference between this one and ones I’ve made before using the same recipe.
 
Got the Bitter bottled a few minutes ago. Didnt taste bad. Weaker than intended but I expected that after screwing up temps. I also added a little too much water/dextrose solution to bottling bucket and ended up with an extra bottle. Oh well IT IS BEER! Not bad at all really.
 
I never bother with trying to swing the mash temperature around after it starts - I just roll with what I get, which is usually within a window of 2degF of target. I've duffed it a few times on the high side and ended up around 164ish but oh well. Every time, tasty beer has been the end result, and if it weren't for my notes I wouldn't even remember the mistake. In fact, I've got a beer going right now where this happened. Less than 24 hours after pitching I had a nice thick krausen so I'm not very concerned. It's a repeat recipe so we'll see if it changes the result in any meaningful way.
 

Similar threads

corncob
Bucket heater cut 30 minutes off my brew day
Replies
0
Views
235
corncob
corncob
RyPA
All NEIPA recipes taste the same
2
Replies
60
Views
2K
RyPA
RyPA
Clint Yeastwood
Kill Mash Out but Raise Temperature to Improve Efficiency?
2
Replies
43
Views
2K
Clint Yeastwood
Clint Yeastwood
D
Another hopwater question
Replies
16
Views
595
Brushwood Brewing
Brushwood Brewing
rburrelli
Dark grains late in mash and absorption
Replies
4
Views
376
Kickass
K
InkBird 300

Latest posts

Back
Top