If first 15 minutes of mash was over 160 is it ruined?

[dwhite60]

Since one aspect of this discussion is "how to adjust mash temps when they are too high/too low," I'll just add that if you do the math (or use dialed-in brewing software* that does the math for you), you can hit whatever mash temps you want very closely, without ever having to adjust after the fact.

*By dialed-in brewing software, I mean software that includes a parameter for your mash tun's thermal mass, which is not hard to determine. No one should ever (IMO) have to say... "The calculator says to use 165 degree strike water, but I usually need water about 5 degrees higher than the calculator says."

Takes some time to dial it in but it's WELL worth the time.

 

[VikeMan]

Takes some time to dial it in but it's WELL worth the time.

Yes, if you use software that accounts for (as a user parameter) the mash tun's thermal mass, you can dial it in in about 1/2 hour, set it, and forget it.

 

[dtashmore547]

sorry for the confusion, an old timer at work, always called that when I started in the late 70s early 80s. dextrose is produced with higher temperatures and never hurts the finished product as it gives it body.

 

[VikeMan]

dextrose is produced with higher temperatures and never hurts the finished product as it gives it body.

I think you mean "Higher Dextrins" or "Unfermentable Dextrins." (Dextrose is completely fermentable.)

 

[Beermeister32]

We've all been there. I walked away from the BIAB mash and overshot the temp similarly. I made the decision to double the batch by quickly milling another set of grains. The enzymes were sufficient to convert my double batch. I added twice the hops, fermented it at double strength in one carboy (about 1.090 OG with an extra pack of yeast) then watered it back to two kegs after fermentation. I named the batch "Double Trouble". It turned into one of the best light lagers I've brewed, unreal.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

If it ever happens to you again, consider adding cold water to the mash to lower the temperature quicker. You can always boil off the extra water after the mash is done. I always have a 1 gallon pitcher of cold or room temp. water handy when I mash in so I can adjust the temperature if needed immediately. Good luck.

I stir in ice to bring the mash temperature down, works fast and less water.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I don't worry about a fermentation for at least 36 hours. Rarely am I disappointed.

Using the amylase enzyme is a great idea. Your problem is too many long chain sugars. You could thin it out adding some dextrose or even sucrose.

I've started increasing temperature using boiling water. It's instant and predictable. It may thin your mash a bit but it's not a problem. Adding cool water to bring temp down works well and it's very fast too. Again, it'll thin your mash but that's less of a sin than too hot for too long.

If you can't get to the LHBS pick up some Bean- O at the grocery, its about the same enzyme.

 

[Joshua Hughes]

This morning both carboys have an inch of Krausen. I will have beer! Thanks guys. I use brewers friend and I think it has a calculator. I just need to pay attention and quit guessing on numbers.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I do BIAB one kettle. when I added the grain the temp dropped to much. I added heat and turned off at 150 and put on the lid. It kept going up. I then put kettle in cold water To bring down. Took 15 minutes to get it back to 150

So the question I have is, how low did the temp drop once you added grain, and how long did it take for you to get up to 150? Conversion happens within a range of temps 140-158 and the majority can happen quickly. I wouldn’t toss it. It could be a little lighter on ABV, and might have more body than you intended, but it could still turn out to be a good beer. Experiences like this are for learning.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

This morning both carboys have an inch of Krausen. I will have beer! Thanks guys. I use brewers friend and I think it has a calculator. I just need to pay attention and quit guessing on numbers.

Take good true notes through the whole process.

 

[passedpawn]

Good call on the enzymes. Easy fix for a bad mash.

 

[catalanotte]

I have cooled over heated mash with ice. A 10 gallon mash will drop about by 4 deg F with a pound of ice in under a minute. .4 oz of ice per gallon of mash per deg F drop needed is a quick formula I use when needed. Never had fermentation problems with a quick correction.

If it ever happens to you again, consider adding cold water

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I have cooled over heated mash with ice. A 10 gallon mash will drop about by 4 deg F with a pound of ice in under a minute. .4 oz of ice per gallon of mash per deg F drop needed is a quick formula I use when needed. Never had fermentation problems with a quick correction.

Ice is nice!

 

[mrdauber64]

Check out some of Brulosophy's experiments on Mash Temps. Most of their data suggests that even though the final gravity might be on the high side, tasters are not able to tell a difference between a high mash temp compared to a low mash temp. Your beer should be fine!

Here is an example: Mash Temperature: 147°F/64°C vs. 164°/73°C | exBEERiment Results!

 

[Bramling Cross]

Brewer that lives under a rock question: I couldn't help but notice that a quick iodine test wasn't suggested. Has the iodine test been relegated to the rather large pile of archaic techniques that used to be standard practice?

 

[thefigure5]

You want to use a thermometer that's accurate and reacts reasonably fast.

Can you recommend some accurate thermometers? I've noticed as much as 10 degrees difference between thermometers.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Check out some of Brulosophy's experiments on Mash Temps. Most of their data suggests that even though the final gravity might be on the high side, tasters are not able to tell a difference between a high mash temp compared to a low mash temp. Your beer should be fine!

Here is an example: Mash Temperature: 147°F/64°C vs. 164°/73°C | exBEERiment Results!

That is very interesting. I pay strict attention to mash temperature and grain to water ratio. I have never missed a mash temp that much but I have had beers that finished high like 1.025 on a Wee Heavy and it was cloyingly sweet. However, this could be a result of the yeast not attenuating the wort fully for some reason. I'll have to check this out on a couple beers.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Brewer that lives under a rock question: I couldn't help but notice that a quick iodine test wasn't suggested. Has the iodine test been relegated to the rather large pile of archaic techniques that used to be standard practice?

It was suggested but the yeast had already been pitched.

 

[Bramling Cross]

It was suggested but the yeast had already been pitched.

Nuts, I double checked and still managed to miss that. Thank you, sir.

 

[IslandLizard]

Can you recommend some accurate thermometers? I've noticed as much as 10 degrees difference between thermometers.

The Thermapen (the Mk4 model now) is the tool of choice among many of us. Fast and accurate.
They're pricey, yes, but if brewing (and cooking) is your forte you won't regret it. You'd never go back.

They go on sale from time to time, subscribe to their newsletter. They also have "open box sales," that's when I got mine. Box was brand new, and had never been opened. Instrument was brand new too.
This blue one is on sale right now.

There are many others at much more modest prices and may work just as well for you.
I used this $16-20 CDN DTQ450X one for years before, but the "6 seconds" lag time became a real deterrent. Although it seemed quite accurate, once stabilized, I also noticed something weird, while climbing to the actual (mash) temp the read out numbers always seemed the same ones.
I still use those CDN ones where temps aren't all that critical, like on my wort output from the plate chiller.

 

[szap]

This might help.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/12/the-mash-high-vs-low-temperature-exbeeriment-results/

 

[szap]

There is anothe experiment on brulosophy where the high temperature for the mash was 164. What the experiments showed is that even you will see lower ABV and different gravity readings, the end product of the high mash produced a tasty beer.

 

[balrog]

Mashing BIAB with finely ground grist will be different than traditional mashing, not so finely ground grist, in terms of how fast overall conversion happens. The denaturing of enzymes in heat is definitely not immediate, but more pronounced the higher you are above 150. I don't have specifics. But 10m at 170F near the beginning of the mash would be sub-optimal, as they say.

More importantly, speaking as one who likes to be able to reproduce things that work and avoid those that don't, you're really in trouble if this becomes the best beer you've ever had in your life and you go trying to recreate the magic!

 

[IslandLizard]

I mash (low gravity/low alcohol) Milds between 160 and 162F. Mash temp definitely makes that beer carry herself.

But yeah, the difference between 152, 154, and 156F may be a lot more subtle.
One thing I learned, you need to come in high from the get-go. Then ease it downward if needed.

 

[CantWinThisGame]

Brewersfriend will calculate your strike water temp and volume for the perfect mash temp every single time. The most I was off was maybe 2 degrees from target rest! It's awesome.

 

[VikeMan]

Brewersfriend will calculate your strike water temp and volume for the perfect mash temp every single time. The most I was off was maybe 2 degrees from target rest! It's awesome.

That calculator assumes everyones' mash tun has the same thermal mass, which is definitely not the case.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

That calculator assumes everyones' mash tun has the same thermal mass, which is definitely not the case.

Absolutely. That's why I use Beersmith.

 

[Joshua Hughes]

Brewed again today (Awesome advantage of small batches) went great hit temps, exact amount of boil off etc. I guess consistency comes with experience, hopefully soon lol

 

[day_trippr]

[...]One thing I learned, you need to come in high from the get-go. Then ease it downward if needed.

Why is that - seems like the unsafer choice of the two options (come in high vs come in low). Is this a system issue?

I rely on Beersmith3's strike temperature calculator which has been amazingly accurate for my system over the years. I take an IR gun average of the mlt interior and FB while using my 2' long digital thermometer to get the grain temperature from the middle of one of the buckets, plug those numbers in, and it bangs them against my equipment profile and spits out a strike temperature.

If I was winging it, I'd come in low rather than high. My herms rig can move the mash between 1 to 2°F per minute depending on the recipe - total mash mass varies, like the 1.108 beast I cooked up today moves a lot slower than then 60 point wheat beer I brewed last.

In any case, I always do a rest at 160-162°F just for grins, before proceeding to mash out and fly sparging. I think it makes for a bit more fermentable wort...

Cheers!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Why is that - seems like the unsafer choice of the two options (come in high vs come in low). Is this a system issue?

I rely on Beersmith3's strike temperature calculator which has been amazingly accurate for my system over the years. I take an IR gun average of the mlt interior and FB while using my 2' long digital thermometer to get the grain temperature from the middle of one of the buckets, plug those numbers in, and it bangs them against my equipment profile and spits out a strike temperature.

If I was winging it, I'd come in low rather than high. My herms rig can move the mash between 1 to 2°F per minute depending on the recipe - total mash mass varies, like the 1.108 beast I cooked up today moves a lot slower than then 60 point wheat beer I brewed last.

In any case, I always do a rest at 160-162°F just for grins, before proceeding to mash out and fly sparging. I think it makes for a bit more fermentable wort...

Cheers!

What size kettles do you have? I would rather come in high because I can drop the mash temp with ice very quickly. Depending on the mash it can take much longer to raise it. I have 27 gal pots.