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If first 15 minutes of mash was over 160 is it ruined?

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VikeMan

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160F would make a not very fermentable wort. 170F would be total disaster. How much "over" 160F was it?
 

VikeMan

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It probably got five minutes around 170 at the very beginning
If that was all throughout the mash tun, I wouldn't have high hopes. Though I suppose it's possible that some of the enzymes (inside the malt pieces) hadn't been exposed that early.
 
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Joshua Hughes

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I do BIAB one kettle. when I added the grain the temp dropped to much. I added heat and turned off at 150 and put on the lid. It kept going up. I then put kettle in cold water To bring down. Took 15 minutes to get it back to 150
 
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Joshua Hughes

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Do I need to dump? I do small batches so a dump costs $6. If it helps the water/was nice and sticky as usual. I did let it do a mash 140-150 for an hour once I got it under control
 
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Joshua Hughes

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If they gravity is ok does that mean anything? I was so mad I forgot to check it. I can use a wine thief and check?
 

VikeMan

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If they gravity is ok does that mean anything? I was so mad I forgot to check it. I can use a wine thief and check?
Sure, that would be useful information. But anything dissolved/suspended (including unconverted starches) can affect gravity. While you're at it, taste the sample. If it's sweet, that would be a positive sign.
 

day_trippr

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edit/rewrite: I guess the answer is actually no, it won't tell much. I didn't actually know straight out starch can even dissolve in water, but as it does, it will indeed raise SG.

So I'm not sure what a gravity check of a seriously cooked mash is going to divulge...

Cheers!
 
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Joshua Hughes

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The bag was sure sticky as can be and the drippings under the colander were too. Grain had a sweetness too
 

day_trippr

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So maybe not fatal :)
Under the circumstances I'll second @Jayjay1976 wrt enzymes. Might be a good idea to lay your hands on a bottle of powdered amylase and track the SG every couple of days to see if it's moving at a reasonable rate vs threatening to plateau. A teaspoon of the stuff at the right time might just work wonders...

Cheers!
 
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Joshua Hughes

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Taste a sample, is it sweet?
Is it fermenting?
Having a packet of amylase enzyme on hand is cheap insurance against just this kind of mishap.
Most importantly, RDWHAHB!
Not fermenting yet but hasn’t been in there too long really.
 

pvpeacock

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If it ever happens to you again, consider adding cold water to the mash to lower the temperature quicker. You can always boil off the extra water after the mash is done. I always have a 1 gallon pitcher of cold or room temp. water handy when I mash in so I can adjust the temperature if needed immediately. Good luck.
 

Jayjay1976

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The amylase is cheap, $3-4 for a packet, I use it whenever my mash temp goes too high or when I have a higher proportion of unmalted or flaked grain and worry about complete conversion. I just add a teaspoon to the mash and stir it up, it isn't something you can reasonably overdo and even when it's not needed it does no harm.

But it sounds like you got at least partial if not full conversion so your beer will likely turn out awesome :rock:
 
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Joshua Hughes

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If it ever happens to you again, consider adding cold water to the mash to lower the temperature quicker. You can always boil off the extra water after the mash is done. I always have a 1 gallon pitcher of cold or room temp. water handy when I mash in so I can adjust the temperature if needed immediately. Good luck.
great idea
 
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Joshua Hughes

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The amylase is cheap, $3-4 for a packet, I use it whenever my mash temp goes too high or when I have a higher proportion of unmalted or flaked grain and worry about complete conversion. I just add a teaspoon to the mash and stir it up, it isn't something you can reasonably overdo and even when it's not needed it does no harm.

But it sounds like you got at least partial if not full conversion so your beer will likely turn out awesome :rock:
Ordered just now
 

Brettomomyces

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A few minutes above 160F will definitely not ruin your beer. It may have destroyed some of the initial enzyme load but if you reduced the temperature quickly this will definitely still produce fermentable beer. I would recommend waiting 7-10 days in primary and checking final gravity with a hydrometer before adding amylase.
 

Jayjay1976

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If it ever happens to you again, consider adding cold water to the mash to lower the temperature quicker. You can always boil off the extra water after the mash is done. I always have a 1 gallon pitcher of cold or room temp. water handy when I mash in so I can adjust the temperature if needed immediately. Good luck.
Yeah, I've read somewhere that the denaturing of enzymes is a temperature over time process, it doesn't happen all at once. The chances are high that you will have a successful beer, even if the OG/FG and ABV are a bit low, in which case, it'll be a nice session beer!!
 

Jayjay1976

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A few minutes above 160F will definitely not ruin your beer. It may have destroyed some of the initial enzyme load but if you reduced the temperature quickly this will definitely still produce fermentable beer. I would recommend waiting 7-10 days in primary and checking final gravity with a hydrometer before adding amylase.
Uh huh-huh huh-huh...you said "load"
 
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Joshua Hughes

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Well 8 hours an no action yet...it was a slurry of S-04 I usually see action by now
 

Jayjay1976

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Well 8 hours an no action yet...it was a slurry of S-04 I usually see action by now
Any chance your yeast was bad? If you still don't see any action by morning you might try pitching more yeast. If it was at all sweet and sticky you will absolutely get some fermentation.
 
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Joshua Hughes

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It’s possible. It was about 6 weeks old. Just bottled a stout from that same jar 2 days ago. I pitched about 50 ml (1.5 gallon batch) I don’t do anything special when I collect it
 
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Joshua Hughes

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I use 2 1 gallon car boys filled to .75 gallons so I have room for any violent fermentation. I fill up incrementally on each so it’s a good mix of sugars. 1 carboy has a thick Krausen and the other nothing. So I’ll at least get 7 good beers
 

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Please use a mash calculator to estimate the needed amount and temp of your strike water.
This one is small and handy: Brew365
There are many others.

You may find that for your "mash system" you need your volume of strike water to be say 5-10F higher than estimated, due to heat loss during stirring, etc.

Also control your mash temp better. If you're mashing smaller amounts in a large kitchen pot, you can place the pot in a pre-warmed but turned off oven for the duration. Especially for smaller volumes, it keeps the temps much better. Check temp of the mash after 10-15 minutes, and adjust if needed/wanted. Say you overshot by 4 degrees, then apply that knowledge next time.

You want to use a thermometer that's accurate and reacts reasonably fast.
 

dtashmore547

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I reckon your maltodextrin level will be a bit higher than normal and give you a slightly sweeter ale but should be ok. test your wort with iodine to see if there is any starch in it, it will turn black if there is.
 

VikeMan

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I reckon your maltodextrin level will be a bit higher than normal and give you a slightly sweeter ale but should be ok.
Barley Malt mashes do make unfermentable dextrins (sometimes lots and lots of them, as may be the OP's case), but they are not usually (in modern times anyway) referred to as "maltodextrin." "Maltodextrin" has a specific meaning as a product derived from partial hydrolysis of (ironically) non-barley non-malt starch sources. I mention this because if you refer to "maltodextrin" in other contexts, I think people will generally think you're talking about the add-in product.

test your wort with iodine to see if there is any starch in it, it will turn black if there is.
Good idea. Finally, a useful application of the dreaded iodine test!
 

dwhite60

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I don't worry about a fermentation for at least 36 hours. Rarely am I disappointed.

Using the amylase enzyme is a great idea. Your problem is too many long chain sugars. You could thin it out adding some dextrose or even sucrose.

I've started increasing temperature using boiling water. It's instant and predictable. It may thin your mash a bit but it's not a problem. Adding cool water to bring temp down works well and it's very fast too. Again, it'll thin your mash but that's less of a sin than too hot for too long.
 

VikeMan

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Since one aspect of this discussion is "how to adjust mash temps when they are too high/too low," I'll just add that if you do the math (or use dialed-in brewing software* that does the math for you), you can hit whatever mash temps you want very closely, without ever having to adjust after the fact.

*By dialed-in brewing software, I mean software that includes a parameter for your mash tun's thermal mass, which is not hard to determine. No one should ever (IMO) have to say... "The calculator says to use 165 degree strike water, but I usually need water about 5 degrees higher than the calculator says."
 

dwhite60

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Since one aspect of this discussion is "how to adjust mash temps when they are too high/too low," I'll just add that if you do the math (or use dialed-in brewing software* that does the math for you), you can hit whatever mash temps you want very closely, without ever having to adjust after the fact.

*By dialed-in brewing software, I mean software that includes a parameter for your mash tun's thermal mass, which is not hard to determine. No one should ever (IMO) have to say... "The calculator says to use 165 degree strike water, but I usually need water about 5 degrees higher than the calculator says."
Takes some time to dial it in but it's WELL worth the time.
 

VikeMan

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Takes some time to dial it in but it's WELL worth the time.
Yes, if you use software that accounts for (as a user parameter) the mash tun's thermal mass, you can dial it in in about 1/2 hour, set it, and forget it.
 

dtashmore547

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sorry for the confusion, an old timer at work, always called that when I started in the late 70s early 80s. dextrose is produced with higher temperatures and never hurts the finished product as it gives it body.
 

VikeMan

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dextrose is produced with higher temperatures and never hurts the finished product as it gives it body.
I think you mean "Higher Dextrins" or "Unfermentable Dextrins." (Dextrose is completely fermentable.)
 

Beermeister32

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We've all been there. I walked away from the BIAB mash and overshot the temp similarly. I made the decision to double the batch by quickly milling another set of grains. The enzymes were sufficient to convert my double batch. I added twice the hops, fermented it at double strength in one carboy (about 1.090 OG with an extra pack of yeast) then watered it back to two kegs after fermentation. I named the batch "Double Trouble". It turned into one of the best light lagers I've brewed, unreal.
 
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Brewbuzzard

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If it ever happens to you again, consider adding cold water to the mash to lower the temperature quicker. You can always boil off the extra water after the mash is done. I always have a 1 gallon pitcher of cold or room temp. water handy when I mash in so I can adjust the temperature if needed immediately. Good luck.
I stir in ice to bring the mash temperature down, works fast and less water.
 

Brewbuzzard

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I don't worry about a fermentation for at least 36 hours. Rarely am I disappointed.

Using the amylase enzyme is a great idea. Your problem is too many long chain sugars. You could thin it out adding some dextrose or even sucrose.

I've started increasing temperature using boiling water. It's instant and predictable. It may thin your mash a bit but it's not a problem. Adding cool water to bring temp down works well and it's very fast too. Again, it'll thin your mash but that's less of a sin than too hot for too long.
If you can't get to the LHBS pick up some Bean- O at the grocery, its about the same enzyme.
 
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Joshua Hughes

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This morning both carboys have an inch of Krausen. I will have beer! Thanks guys. I use brewers friend and I think it has a calculator. I just need to pay attention and quit guessing on numbers.
 

Hoppy2bmerry

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I do BIAB one kettle. when I added the grain the temp dropped to much. I added heat and turned off at 150 and put on the lid. It kept going up. I then put kettle in cold water To bring down. Took 15 minutes to get it back to 150
So the question I have is, how low did the temp drop once you added grain, and how long did it take for you to get up to 150? Conversion happens within a range of temps 140-158 and the majority can happen quickly. I wouldn’t toss it. It could be a little lighter on ABV, and might have more body than you intended, but it could still turn out to be a good beer. Experiences like this are for learning. :)
 
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