Ideas for my next cider

[NateG]

Well it is definitely cider time again, I picked up some fresh Safale US-05 from the LHBS today. I haven't decided exactly what I want to do this time, I have done a couple batches of strait apple cider, a couple batches of blackberry apple cider and one batch with quite a bit of sugar added I have been seeing a few recipes with pumpkin in them, which sounds interesting, I was thinking about doing a batch with a bunch of spices added too.

A question about the pumpkin, I see people are using canned and it sounds like they are putting it in a fine mesh bag so it doesn't get in the must as much am I right? Could I just take a gallon of water, a can of pumpkin and spices and boil them for 30 minutes and pour it into the carboy with the juice to ferment?

 

[Seanana]

I hope someone posts. In my experience the cider forum gets no love. But, this sounds pretty good, a pumpkin cider.

 

[gestyr]

When I make cider I add some honey,raisins or currants and cinnamon. It is simple and tastes great.

 

[TexasWine]

Hey Nate. Glad to see someone else is trying their hand at a pumpkin cider. You might have already stumbled across it, but here's the thread for my attempt. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/pumpkin-cider-recipe-427129/

To answer your question, yes you could do exactly that. But the problem is that you'll end up with an extremely thick layer of pumpkin in the bottom of your carboy. So thick in fact that you'll end up leaving behind a whole bunch of cider (maybe 15-25%) just to avoid picking up the solids when you rack.

Saunter over to the vegetable beer forum, or use the nifty thread search feature, and you'll see pictures of what I'm talking about. The folks who just dumped the pumpkin into the boil ended up losing a large quantity of beer.

My opinion, either find a very tight nit bag and use canned pumpkin, or chop up a real pie pumpkin and put it in a muslin bag. I did the latter this first go round, but next time I make this I think I will use a grater. That should result in more pumpkin surface area and therefore more pumpkin flavor extraction.

Hope this helps. And let us know if you have any more questions!

 

[NateG]

Cool, I'm sure the farmers market where I get my fresh cider from will have some pie pumpkins.

Here is what I am thinking:
1 pie pumpkin grated
4 gallons cider
1 gallon water
5 cups brown sugar
1 oz ginger grated
1 oz nutmeg grated
3 cinnamon sticks
5 tsp yeast nutrient
1 pack US-05 ale yeast
I will put all the spices and pumpkin in a mesh bag, dissolve the sugar in the water and toss in the bag and boil for half an hour.

Opinions?

 

[TexasWine]

Cool, I'm sure the farmers market where I get my fresh cider from will have some pie pumpkins.

Here is what I am thinking:
1 pie pumpkin grated
4 gallons cider
1 gallon water
5 cups brown sugar
1 oz ginger grated
1 oz nutmeg grated
3 cinnamon sticks
5 tsp yeast nutrient
1 pack US-05 ale yeast
I will put all the spices and pumpkin in a mesh bag, dissolve the sugar in the water and toss in the bag and boil for half an hour.

Opinions?

I don't foresee any major issues with this recipe. A couple questions/considerations though.

What temp do you plan to ferment at?
Consider dissolving the brown sugar in the cider instead of the water used to boil the pumpkin. I've read that there are very few fermentable sugars to be extracted from pumpkin. And since every solution is in some state of equilibrium, my theory is that having sugar in that water makes it less likely to get to those pumpkin sugars. Someone else may come in and say that's hogwash.
I would aerate the apple cider by pouring in half the bottle, shaking the remaining half, then pouring that half in.
Consider using pectic enzyme if you're shooting for a clear cider.

Hope this turns out wonderful for you! Keep us updated!

 

[georgiabulldog02]

Let us know how your recipe turns out. Sounds interesting!

 

[NateG]

Interesting point on the sugar, I think I will do as you mention, which what I have done in the past and add the sugar to the juice.

 

[justineaton]

I just started my pumpkin cider today, everything I could find about adding pumpkin to cider was different instructions so I just winged it. I used libby's pure pumpkin and baked it to carmelize. then added vanilla extract, cinnamon, and a little bit of pure maple syrup. I mixed it all up and added it to the cider that I got started yesterday with bakers sugar (should have used brown though) and Lalvin k1-v1116 yeast. I mixed the pumpkin in as well as I could and will continue to stir it daily for another 7 days or so until it is ready to be raked to my carboy. When you do it with chunks in an infuse bag or grate it are you doing that with fresh pumpkin? All the instructions I have read or videos I have watched have been different but the one thing that had always been the same until now is they all said to camelize the pumpkin, let me know how it turns out and maybe I will try that next time.

 

[NateG]

Hmm, I don't know, I was just going to boil it with the spices for an hour, I'm not sure about the caramelizing, I might have to look into that. Maybe TexasWine can weigh in on this?

 

[TexasWine]

Hmm, I don't know, I was just going to boil it with the spices for an hour, I'm not sure about the caramelizing, I might have to look into that. Maybe TexasWine can weigh in on this?

Yup, lots of folks put the pumpkin in the oven until it's got a nice golden brown look to it. In theory its supposed to bring out more pumpkin flavor. But here's my (not so scientific) take on it. It makes sense to bake the pumpkin if you don't boil it. If you're going to boil it, don't worry about baking. Either way you're applying heat to it.

For my recipe I was looking for ways to speed up the prep time. I knew I was going to have a boil step, so I just combined cooking the pumpkin into that step. Dirtied fewer dishes that way too!

I don't think caramelizing is bad. Some folks swear by it, others just boil like me.

BTW, here's and interesting read on pumpkin fermentables.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/how-much-fermentable-sugar-will-i-get-pumpkin-199558/index3.html

 

[justineaton]

I probably won't start any more cider this year since I have ten gallons ready to be drank and another 15 in primary but next time I do make it I am going to try boiling and see which turns out better. The pumpkin that I added to the primary is mostly floating on top, I stir it up everyday and mix it in and it all floats back up so it should be fairly easy to scrap it all off before I rack to my carboy. It sure smells good right now.

 

[NateG]

Well, it's going down tomorrow morning so I will post a couple updates tomorrow. I think I will be doing about 3 batches of cider this year, this one, another batch of blackberry and I have a bunch of Cascade hops from the garden that I will probably use to dry hop at least one batch.

 

[TexasWine]

Well, it's going down tomorrow morning so I will post a couple updates tomorrow. I think I will be doing about 3 batches of cider this year, this one, another batch of blackberry and I have a bunch of Cascade hops from the garden that I will probably use to dry hop at least one batch.

Definitely keep us updated!

How'd your blackberry cider turn out?

 

[NateG]

The blackberry always turns out nice, I have done it 3 times I think. it is just 5 gallons cider and 2 lbs or so of black berries pasteurized and poured into the primary with the cider, the berries turn bleach white in the process. I usually let that go for a month in primary and just siphon it into a keg for a week or so before chilling and carbing.

 

[NateG]

Right, everything pretty much went off without a hitch, I couldn't find fresh nutmeg so I got some new ground nutmeg and put it in coffee filters, I should have tossed the filters into a muslin bag though because one came apart. I used the food processor with a slicing blade to chop up the pumpkin.

 

[TexasWine]

Right, everything pretty much went off without a hitch, I couldn't find fresh nutmeg so I got some new ground nutmeg and put it in coffee filters, I should have tossed the filters into a muslin bag though because one came apart. I used the food processor with a slicing blade to chop up the pumpkin.
http://s283.photobucket.com/user/ohm1163058/media/IMG_20131017_094705_801.jpg.html
http://s283.photobucket.com/user/ohm1163058/media/IMG_20131017_100018_787.jpg.html
http://s283.photobucket.com/user/ohm1163058/media/IMG_20131017_101012_503.jpg.html
http://s283.photobucket.com/user/ohm1163058/media/IMG_20131017_101019_924.jpg.html
http://s283.photobucket.com/user/ohm1163058/media/IMG_20131017_101253_958.jpg.html

Looks like I need to get a food processor!

 

[NateG]

All up it has an original gravity of 1.054 so it should be around the 10% mark I think, it will be interesting to see how it tastes.

 

[Seanana]

I was told at my LHBS to use Amylase Enzyme Formula because it will help to convert the starches to fermentable sugars. Any ideas on that?

 

[NateG]

Nope, first time I have heard of that honestly, I am mainly going for flavor with the pumpkin so I didn't even think of something like that. I will look it up for good measure anyway. With the gravity that I got though I should be in the high 8% range when it is done fermenting though anyway so I think I will have more then enough in this batch. It is steadily bubbling away, the color has dropped considerably, sediment falling out of suspension probably, yesterday it had the thick foam on top and today it is more of a thick fizzy foam so the US-05 is definitely chugging away. It should be interesting to see how long this one goes for, I am going to start a high gravity batch in my 1 gallon bottle tomorrow morning for a slightly more interesting experiment, don't ask/ don't tell

 

[Seanana]

I'm really stressing right now because i can't figure out how to use the canned purée. I've also been told to use a clearing agent to help with a short ferm time. Any ideas?

 

[NateG]

Not sure how a clearing agent would shorten the fermenting time for you, I fully expect to keep these two ciders in their bottles for at least 3 weeks. If you don't want to wait for the cider to clear naturally then yes you can cold crash or use clearing agents to clear the cider after it has fermented out. The canned puree you will have to find a very fine fabric bag for, I put my chopped up pumpkin into a normal nylon mesh hop bag and it reduced down to about the consistency of puree so you will need something with a pretty tight weave to keep it from getting too much into the boil water. Cider like most things brewing takes time, I expect I will be able to have some of the pumpkin cider at Thanksgiving and really enjoy it at Christmas.

 

[NateG]

Just to throw it out there, we ended up baking the rest of the pumpkin with a little brown sugar and it was delicious

 

[NateG]

Went to the LHBS and picked up some more yeast neautrient since I didn't have any for the small batch. Boiled some water and dissolved the yeast nutrient in the water and cooled it in the freezer before adding it to the bottle. I also picked up some candem tabs to add to the the pumpkin cider when I rack it to secondary. I also tossed some more yeast neutruent in the pumpkin because I didn't have much in there to start with, on it I just poured it in and shook the bottle gently.

 

[TexasWine]

Have you pulled any samples to taste yet?

 

[NateG]

Nope, the Apple Wine in the small bottle is back up to bubbling every 5 seconds after adding the yeast nutrient and the pumpkin I am probably going to leave for at least a month before racking to secondary, I am going to try and be good and let it age properly. The one gallon of apple wine I have other plans for so I will give it another week or so and start cold crashing and clearing.

 

[NateG]

I lied I took a sample this morning and checked the gravity, it is sitting at 0.994 and has a nice spice aroma. I will give it a taste after work. I am going to probably rack it to secondary this week and let it age some still.

 

[NateG]

Racked the spiced cider to the 5 gallon bottle this morning and stuffed it into the closet. I also crushed some campden tabs and added them as well.

 

[justineaton]

I did five gallons with pumpkin and five gallons without, other than the pumpkin they are the same. Same amount of sugar, same yeast, sitting right next to each other so temp is the same, started the same day, everything is identical. The pumpkin is still bubbling really good but the other one stopped, I took a gravity reading and it is only around 2% I tasted it and it is really sweet still. I added enough sugar that it should be up to at least 12% when complete. I'm not sure why it is not fermenting. Does the pumpkin have nutrients in it that are feeding my yeast in that one maybe? I added yeast nutrient to the other one yesterday and will check it when it hits the 24 hour Mark. If it is still not going I may repitch my yeast.

 

[NateG]

Yeah it sounds like the yeast stalled out, definitely add your yeast nutrient and see how that goes.