Ice water in wort for cooling

[surista]

I have a great immersion chiller that does a pretty solid job of getting my wort down to 26-27C (80-81F) degrees fairly quickly (15 minutes or so). However, my tap water isn't that cold, so getting the wort temperature any lower takes an inordinate amount of time.

I've been adding chilled bottled water (Volvic ec) to the fermendter, seems to work ok (and I guess it also helps a bit with aeration).

Could I freeze a couple bottles of Volvic, and after the boil, sanitize the bottles in my Star San bucket and put the frozen bottles right in the wort after the temperature has gone below 30C or so? Would that get me to yeast pitch temperature faster while still being able to do a full-volume boil, with no real infection concerns?

 

[c673986]

I used to put my kettle in my sink with ice water in the sink at that stage

 

[surista]

Unfortunately my kettle is too big for my sink. It doesn't really fit :-(

 

[Bubman]

I use a large plastic storage bin put my kettle in and add cold water and ice. I only brew 3 gallon batches so it cools down really quickly.

 

[specharka]

You could use a cheap submersible pump and recirculate ice water from a bucket or cooler. I’ve heard that 300 GPM is enough to get decent recirculation and is a great option to get to even lagering temperatures within a short period of time. Cut the tap water once you get to 85-100F and the ice water will knock temperatures down really quickly.

 

[Murphys_Law]

You could use a cheap submersible pump and recirculate ice water from a bucket or cooler. I’ve heard that 300 GPM is enough to get decent recirculation and is a great option to get to even lagering temperatures within a short period of time. Cut the tap water once you get to 85-100F and the ice water will knock temperatures down really quickly.

I run tap water through the chiller and fill up a few 5g buckets with the hot “discharge” water which is later used for cleaning, and once I’m around 100f I switch the “in” hose to a small pond pump which is sitting in a cooler of ice water.

Works well, gives me hot water for cleaning as well as saving water.

 

[davidabcd]

I don't see why you couldn't. I've only done ice in the brew pot (3 gallon boil) once but was warned against it as a contaminant. Worked just fine though. I was new at the time and haven't reevaluated my position on the subject. I didn't take the careful measures you're suggesting; I used a bunch of ice from the trays in the freezer and plopped them in.
I also have used tap water (Detroit) for four years with no negative result. I do sanitize the faucet as well as I can.
If someone has a proven reason why frozen water is going to mess up a brew, I'd like to know it.

 

[JohnSand]

I've read of people using plastic cooler ice packs after sanitizing.
I think your method will work.

 

[mongoose33]

You can do that and it will work to some extent, but not as well as you'd think. It would be more effective to freeze that water in a sanitized container and put the ice directly in, treating it as top-up water.

Of course, if you don't need to top-up, that's not going to work for you.

 

[knotquiteawake]

You can do that and it will work to some extent, but not as well as you'd think. It would be more effective to freeze that water in a sanitized container and put the ice directly in, treating it as top-up water.

Of course, if you don't need to top-up, that's not going to work for you.

This is what i would do as well. You could even freeze 3/4 full gallon jug of water (so the water is just below the handle) and then cut the plastic away and plop that 3/4 gallon ice cube into your hot wort. Or do the same with a handful of regular water bottles as well.

 

[davidabcd]

Good thread.

 

[00Seven]

Ive done different things. I will use cleaned empty milk jugs filled 2/3 with water and frozen. Dunk them in my sanitizer and use my stainless spoon through the handle to keep them upright while they cool. I do that in combination with doing water baths to get down to 80ish (Im in south Texas and my ground water is 80 degrees on a good day). I never had any problems but after a 5-6 sessions one of the jugs developed a small leak. Never caused any issues but swapped out the jugs. I also have a thing called an ice paddle (look it up on Amazon). Basically it is a 4 bladed spatula filled with water and frozen. Ill dunk that and then use that in the wort. It's make with food grade plastic and can handle high temps. I like this method better because I can stir it around easier and can even take it apart and add more ice to the handle if need be. Ill use that in combo with filling sink with water a few times. I can usually get down to 80 degrees in 20 minutes or so.

Now I have a fermentation chamber set up. My plan for my brew session Friday is to use the ice paddle and water for a 10-15 minutes or so while I clean up then move the entire brew pot into my temp controlled deep freeze. Leave it in there 12 hours or so then move it into my fermentation bucket when I'm down around 55-60 degrees. Then I'll dump it into the bucket with my strainer and then aerate the wort and double check the temp then pitch the yeast. This will save me a lot of time and will be easier on my back. Ive come to accept that down here with my equipment I wont be able get down to 55 or so in any reasonable time period unless I want to buy a bunch more stuff. I have buddies in Houston that will use a double counterflow wort chiller set up. First one using tap water to get to 85ish, and the second using ice water to get down to pitching temps. Awesome idea and works really well. I don't want 3 more pieces of equipment (2 CF chillers and a pump) plus wasting all that water and ice. Maybe one day but for now this setup works for me.

TLDR: you absolutely can use frozen milk jugs with water in your wort, just make sure they dont flip over and watch for leaks. Look for an ice paddle on amazon, they are about $35 and work really well but they take up some space in the freezer

 

[MB331]

I have a great immersion chiller that does a pretty solid job of getting my wort down to 26-27C (80-81F) degrees fairly quickly (15 minutes or so). However, my tap water isn't that cold, so getting the wort temperature any lower takes an inordinate amount of time.

I've been adding chilled bottled water (Volvic ec) to the fermendter, seems to work ok (and I guess it also helps a bit with aeration).

Could I freeze a couple bottles of Volvic, and after the boil, sanitize the bottles in my Star San bucket and put the frozen bottles right in the wort after the temperature has gone below 30C or so? Would that get me to yeast pitch temperature faster while still being able to do a full-volume boil, with no real infection concerns?

J

 

[Lefou]

I've read of people using plastic cooler ice packs after sanitizing.
I think your method will work.

I've cooled this way but would rather do a higher gravity three gallon boil and dilute with near-freezing water.
The wort and kettle have also gone outside during a Nor'Easter while shoveling snow - my version of multi-tasking.

 

[MB331]

I only do extract kits and after the boil I am usually short 1-2 gallons when attempting a 5 gallon brew. A few days before brew day I sanitize two half gallon Rubbermaid containers (and lids), pour bottled water into them and freeze them. Kills 2 birds with one stone------achieving my 5 gallons and cooling the wort pretty quickly without wasting water.

 

[surista]

Yeah, doing a less-than-full boil and topping up with near-freezing water is probably the simplest way to go. Or frozen water - I like the idea of freezing the bottles of water (and no need to measure since they're 2-liter bottles) and cutting away the plastic with a sanitized knife.

I've read that doing a full-volume boil is 'better' for various reasons (things like color and hop acidity etc? Don't remember the exact wording), so I was looking for a way to keep doing full-volume boils. But working with smaller volumes has its advantages - quicker to boil, quicker to cool (esp. if the top-up is with frozen water).

I need to see if the Brülosophy guys have done an experiment looking at full-volume vs top-up to see if there any perceptible differences.

Great thread guys.

 

[ncbrewer]

I've read that doing a full-volume boil is 'better' for various reasons (things like color and hop acidity etc?

Full volume boil is good for minimizing maillard reactions and improving hop utilization, but you can also do this by late extract addition. Do a half volume boil with around 1/4 of the extract (or maybe a little more), and add the rest at flame-out. The only drawback I'm aware of is that the solubility limit is around 100 IBUs. So with the late extract method, the max you can get in the final beer is 50 IBUs. That's plenty for me, but some hop heads might feel limited.