i want to do a hopstand beer

[sputnam]

i'm trying to plan a DIPA (3 gallon batch) and do a hopstand. I was planning on using falconers flight 7 C's. I have 4 oz. I feel like that would be sufficient for the hopstand but I also want to dryhop with at least 2 oz of something (would prefer FF 7C but 4 oz is all of it.

I have many different types of hops but unfortunately only have 4 oz of them. So, it's either do a hopstand with two or more types or just use traditional hop schedule and get all of one.

What would you do?

 

[Yooper]

I like combos of hops, like simcoe/amarillo, chinook/centennial, cascade/centennial, and 7Cs will pair well with other US citrusy hops.

What hops do you have?

 

[sputnam]

nugget - 1 oz
nz jade - 1 oz
citra - 2 oz (don't like citra)
amarillo - 1 oz
warrior - 1 oz
magnum - 4 oz
summit - 4 oz
simcoe - 4 oz
cascade - 4 oz
mosaic - 4oz
centennial - 4 oz
7 C's - 4 oz

i was under the impression that 7 C's already being a blend that it may be better off leaving that as a single hop beer, but I am open to suggestions

 

[cantrell00]

Two questions...

What are you bittering with?

Any other additions beside the flameout hopstand?

If were me, I'd dry hop with 1.5 oz of cascade & 1.5 oz of centennial

 

[sputnam]

for bittering, I was thinking about like 1/4 oz warrior @ 60....then a boatload of hops after flameout. (4 oz of FF 7 C's), then 2 oz dryhop of "I have no effing clue" ( but the 3 oz cascade/ centennial sounds great)

 

[jammin]

sounds like want to get a lot of the 7C aroma/flavor.

Maybe go something similar to this?:

Hopstand:
1oz 7C
1oz Jade
1oz Cascade
1/2oz Mosaic
1/2oz Summit

Dry Hop:
3oz 7C
1/2oz Mosaic
1/2oz Amarillo


That sounds like a really fun combo to me!

 

[cantrell00]

sounds like want to get a lot of the 7C aroma/flavor.

Maybe go something similar to this?:

Hopstand:
1oz 7C
1oz Jade
1oz Cascade
1/2oz Mosaic
1/2oz Summit

Dry Hop:
3oz 7C
1/2oz Mosaic
1/2oz Amarillo


That sounds like a really fun combo to me!

Good HOP Almighty!!!!!!

:rockin:

 

[sputnam]

sounds like want to get a lot of the 7C aroma/flavor.

Maybe go something similar to this?:

Hopstand:
1oz 7C
1oz Jade
1oz Cascade
1/2oz Mosaic
1/2oz Summit

Dry Hop:
3oz 7C
1/2oz Mosaic
1/2oz Amarillo


That sounds like a really fun combo to me!

sounds awesome, consider it done. And per the above post I think I will name it HOP Almighty.

Thanks for the input - - - if anyones cares, I will post taste results in 6-8 weeks

 

[cantrell00]

sounds awesome, consider it done. And per the above post I think I will name it HOP Almighty.

Thanks for the input - - - if anyones cares, I will post taste results in 6-8 weeks

The dry hop in particular looks killer... Curious how the aroma specifically turns out...

 

[sumbrewindude]

Looks awesome!

As a heads up, you're going to loose a LOT of wort to the hopstand due to absorption - make sure you figure in enough extra wort (like a 3.5gal batch over the 3gal) to compensate for it!!

I didn't, and my 3gal batch became a 2.5gal batch into the keg when it was all said and done. Brew and learn!

 

[jammin]

sounds awesome, consider it done. And per the above post I think I will name it HOP Almighty.

Thanks for the input - - - if anyones cares, I will post taste results in 6-8 weeks

i think it's gonna be really good - id be interested in a small homebrew swap for a bottle down the road if you're interested.

i use mesh bags for my hops and squeeze them out when transferring to the fermentor. I barely lose any wort at all on hoppy beers.

 

[sputnam]

i think it's gonna be really good - id be interested in a small homebrew swap for a bottle down the road if you're interested.

i use mesh bags for my hops and squeeze them out when transferring to the fermentor. I barely lose any wort at all on hoppy beers.

if it's an awesome beer, i will swap---if it's just ok, prob won't go to trouble.

I'll be back here on Valentine's day


btw - i did the hopstand for around 30 mins....hope that's enough

 

[cantrell00]

if it's an awesome beer, i will swap---if it's just ok, prob won't go to trouble.

I'll be back here on Valentine's day


btw - i did the hopstand for around 30 mins....hope that's enough

Do you recall the temp of the wort?

 

[Jayhem]

Sounds awesome to me! You will loose quite a bit of beer to hop absorption with that much dry hop. Be sure to use a filter or mesh bag over your siphon when transferring from fermenter.

 

[sputnam]

Do you recall the temp of the wort?

started around 177° dropped down to 170° then heated back up to 180°, don't remember what it was when i was done, maybe high 160's

 

[cantrell00]

started around 177° dropped down to 170° then heated back up to 180°, don't remember what it was when i was done, maybe high 160's

Gotcha... Mine is usually in that temp range as well. Just curious.

 

[sputnam]

first tasting:

it is 4 days before this beer is 8 weeks old and I just did a (ever so slightly) premature tasting.....Even though i sugar primed it when I kegged and it's been on C02 for a few days now, it's not fully carbbed yet (which came as a surprise) but anyway to the more important part. What I have here is a very good brew, not quite as good as I had hoped (not worth the trouble to swap "jammin") but as good as any commercial DIPA I have had. Honestly, my biggest disappointment is the aroma. I have 4 oz (3 oz 7 C's, 1/2 oz mosaic, 1/2 oz amarillo) and I can't hardly smell anything. Keep in mind this is 4 oz hops, in a 3 gallon keg??????!!!!????!!! WTH? I was expecting my nose to almost burn. I'm sure an extra few days in the keg will fix the carbonation but I don't see how it could fix the smell

 

[SnakeRidge]

sounds like want to get a lot of the 7C aroma/flavor.

Maybe go something similar to this?:

Hopstand:
1oz 7C
1oz Jade
1oz Cascade
1/2oz Mosaic
1/2oz Summit

Dry Hop:
3oz 7C
1/2oz Mosaic
1/2oz Amarillo


That sounds like a really fun combo to me!

That looks like a winner. An I like Hop Almighty for a name

 

[Patrick87]

it is 4 days before this beer is 8 weeks old and I just did a (ever so slightly) premature tasting.....Even though i sugar primed it when I kegged and it's been on C02 for a few days now, it's not fully carbbed yet (which came as a surprise) but anyway to the more important part. What I have here is a very good brew, not quite as good as I had hoped (not worth the trouble to swap "jammin") but as good as any commercial DIPA I have had. Honestly, my biggest disappointment is the aroma. I have 4 oz (3 oz 7 C's, 1/2 oz mosaic, 1/2 oz amarillo) and I can't hardly smell anything. Keep in mind this is 4 oz hops, in a 3 gallon keg??????!!!!????!!! WTH? I was expecting my nose to almost burn. I'm sure an extra few days in the keg will fix the carbonation but I don't see how it could fix the smell

That's weird. Sounds like you had a good hopstand and with 4oz of dry hops for a 3 gallon batch, I would think you'd get plenty of aroma too.

So you primed it with sugar and left it to sit warm for a few weeks to carb, and dry hopped warm, right? Or did you keg-hop cold the whole time?

 

[Yooper]

first tasting:

it is 4 days before this beer is 8 weeks old and I just did a (ever so slightly) premature tasting.....Even though i sugar primed it when I kegged and it's been on C02 for a few days now, it's not fully carbbed yet (which came as a surprise) but anyway to the more important part. What I have here is a very good brew, not quite as good as I had hoped (not worth the trouble to swap "jammin") but as good as any commercial DIPA I have had. Honestly, my biggest disappointment is the aroma. I have 4 oz (3 oz 7 C's, 1/2 oz mosaic, 1/2 oz amarillo) and I can't hardly smell anything. Keep in mind this is 4 oz hops, in a 3 gallon keg??????!!!!????!!! WTH? I was expecting my nose to almost burn. I'm sure an extra few days in the keg will fix the carbonation but I don't see how it could fix the smell

At 8 weeks old, it probably is already losing some aroma. How did it taste a month ago? What was your water like, though? Sometimes water can play a role in the hops flavor and aroma.

 

[FourSeasonAngler]

first tasting:

it is 4 days before this beer is 8 weeks old and I just did a (ever so slightly) premature tasting.....Even though i sugar primed it when I kegged and it's been on C02 for a few days now, it's not fully carbbed yet (which came as a surprise) but anyway to the more important part. What I have here is a very good brew, not quite as good as I had hoped (not worth the trouble to swap "jammin") but as good as any commercial DIPA I have had. Honestly, my biggest disappointment is the aroma. I have 4 oz (3 oz 7 C's, 1/2 oz mosaic, 1/2 oz amarillo) and I can't hardly smell anything. Keep in mind this is 4 oz hops, in a 3 gallon keg??????!!!!????!!! WTH? I was expecting my nose to almost burn. I'm sure an extra few days in the keg will fix the carbonation but I don't see how it could fix the smell

What temp did you do your hopstand at?

What temp did you do your dry hop at?

How long did you do your dry hop for?

 

[sputnam]

trying to get everyones questions in one post:


hopstand at 170°
dry hop at room temp in keg

by 8 weeks, i mean from day I made it...this was the first tasting

don't know anything about my water other than it makes good beer. I did a mosaic pale a while back and used 1/2 the amount of hops and it smelled awesome.

i primaried for 3 weeks, sugar primed and dry hopped in the keg and let it sit at room temp for 4 weeks, then into kegerator for a few days.


oh, and the hops are still in the keg

 

[Yooper]

by 8 weeks, i mean from day I made it...this was the first tasting
.........................

i primaried for 3 weeks, sugar primed and dry hopped in the keg and let it sit at room temp for 4 weeks, then into kegerator for a few days.


oh, and the hops are still in the keg

Yes, I know what you meant. Beers are 'born' on the day they are brewed. An 8 week old IPA/IIPA is sort of aged but some folks like that when the bitterness becomes more apparently and the hops 'nose' has faded.

Most of my IPAs are gone by 3-4 weeks, while some of my IIPAs make it to 4-6 weeks before being gone. I would not routinely age a keg for 4 weeks, particularly with hops in it at room temperature.

Normally you'd dryhop 3-5 days at room temperature, and then drop the temperature to preserve the hops aroma. After 4 weeks at room temperature, that's an aged IIPA and much of the fresh hops aroma will be gone by then. An 8 week old IIPA is an aged IIPA, generally.

 

[jammin]

I agree with yooper/others. hop aroma fades incredibly quick. sounds like you're not a hop novice either so your "tolerance/expectations" is probably high.


I'll hit this problem from a slightly different angle though for future brews!



Some hops are far more aromatic than others. Focus on those for your dry hop to really increase the nose. Mosaic is probably the most aromatic hop I know of personally, followed by Citra and Simcoe. The 7C hops (whats in the falconers flight blend) are dwarfed by the big 3 I mentioned. My only caveat to this, use Mosaic somewhat sparingly - it is very much a "berry/tropical" type note that adds to perceived sweetness. It can take a beer intended to be dank or citrusy to a strawberry patch very quickly. I like to use .75-1oz in the dry hop with a total of 4-5oz dry hops in a 5 gallon batch

 

[joshesmusica]

4 weeks in the keg? why'd you wait so long?
for my ipas (or highly hopped hybrid stuff) i usually primary 2 weeks, bottle 3 weeks, then consume as quickly as possible! if you have a keg, you could be enjoy this thing by 3 weeks from the pitch. that amount of time away from that huge hopstand you did basically wasted all those hops for their aroma, and possibly even the flavor.
also a lot of people usually only dry hop 5-7 days because it can start to give off some vegetal or grassy flavors after that point.
i vote that you should do this brew again! only this time don't wait so long!

 

[sputnam]

please understand I am NOT arguing or even debating with you guys...i'm just regurgitating what I've heard, read, been exposed to with a little experience tossed in (18 month old brewer---45 batches).....
every (and i mean half dozen or so) DIPA recipe said to ferment (and i learned on this site that's 2 - 3 weeks minimum) then age in secondary or keg for 6 - 8 weeks....hell, that's 10 - 11 total...i only did 8, well 7.5....
As far as dry hopping in the keg, I read a post (also on this site) that a certain individual has won awards for IPA's that have been in the keg for 4 months! I know, I wasn't there, didn't see it....but most keg hoppers say it's the only way to fly....
most beers I make (I can't see mine being much different than yours) change flavor week by week - - sometimes day by day until they finally settle out into a consistent taste/flavor/mouthfeel which in my case has usually ended up being somewhere around 6 weeks for med to low grav....this is my first IPA over 9%, and like I said all the recipes I read said to primary and or secondary/keg longer. I actually made a 7% IPA quite a while back and drank it kinda young and it tasted (BOOZY) as a friend called it, a few more weeks and it settled out into quite a nice brew. <----- that's the lil bit of XP I was yackin' about

again, not arguing

 

[jammin]

^judges/comps are about as fickle as it gets... i have my thoughts, but I don't want to digress haha.


A huge pitch of healthy yeast is the key player in limiting the hot/boozy taste in DIPA's (as well as temp control). For a 9%+ dry IPA though, you're gonna have some heat, it comes with the territory.


As far as time tables go - when you think fermentation is about done start pulling samples every 3 days. As soon as that puppy is finished, rack it! For best results, use your intuition and experience to plan your dry hop to start 4-5 days prior to completion of fermentation.

 

[PatrickLS83]

So did you treat the keg like a bottle and add sugar, seal and let carbonate at room temp? This should have worked fine. You also mentioned you put it on c02, just curious if that was in a fridge or also at room temp. The c02 will absorb much better in the fridge so if you haven't already I would keep it on 10-12 psi but get it in the fridge asap. You also want to get it in the fridge to preserve the hop flavor and aroma (it will begin to fade). Sounds like a great recipe, I'm probably going to borrow ideas from this. Thanks for sharing!

 

[PatrickLS83]

Sorry I should read better before I post, I see you already addressed some of these questions.

 

[Yooper]

please understand I am NOT arguing or even debating with you guys...i'm just regurgitating what I've heard, read, been exposed to with a little experience tossed in (18 month old brewer---45 batches).....
every (and i mean half dozen or so) DIPA recipe said to ferment (and i learned on this site that's 2 - 3 weeks minimum) then age in secondary or keg for 6 - 8 weeks....hell, that's 10 - 11 total...i only did 8, well 7.5....
As far as dry hopping in the keg, I read a post (also on this site) that a certain individual has won awards for IPA's that have been in the keg for 4 months! I know, I wasn't there, didn't see it....but most keg hoppers say it's the only way to fly....
most beers I make (I can't see mine being much different than yours) change flavor week by week - - sometimes day by day until they finally settle out into a consistent taste/flavor/mouthfeel which in my case has usually ended up being somewhere around 6 weeks for med to low grav....this is my first IPA over 9%, and like I said all the recipes I read said to primary and or secondary/keg longer. I actually made a 7% IPA quite a while back and drank it kinda young and it tasted (BOOZY) as a friend called it, a few more weeks and it settled out into quite a nice brew. <----- that's the lil bit of XP I was yackin' about

again, not arguing

yes, I've read some of the same things about aging beer- that aging will fix all things, that some folks leave their beers in the fermenter for a month, etc.

I'm not one of those. I leave the beers in the fermenter until they're done and clear- generally about 10 days. If dryhopping, I dryhop then and keg 3-7 days later and chill and drink. This is for APA/AAA/IPA/IIPAs generally, but other beers as well if they aren't complex.

I think that if I saw a commercial IIPA on the shelf that was 10 weeks old, I would pass. That's past peak and past prime, although it might taste ok.

This forum is awesome, and I've learned almost all I know of brewing from these folks. But whoever told you to age an IIPA for at least 8 weeks before sampling/drinking should be kicked in the nuts (if they are a guy). The beer is about 4 weeks past peak already. A well made beer doesn't need to age, unless it is something like a big barleywine or a Belgian triple that needs a bit of time to meld and come together. Most beers do NOT improve with age, and if they do, it's not an IIPA or IPA.

Even Pliny the Elder, arguably the most famous IIPA has this on the label:
Drink Fresh! Do not age! Pliny is for savoring, not saving!

 

[joshesmusica]

OP, out of anybody's advice on this website, i would take yooper's into consideration most. every time she's given me advice, it's been spot on to what i've later found through reading homebrewing books and articles (not that i didn't trust her advice the first time, just that i usually only ask for advice on here when i'm in a pinch and don't have time to scour through all the resources. then when i do have time, i realize she was spot on.)

honestly, and i suppose i'm probably just reiterating what others have said, if you're getting off flavors with your diipas, i would seriously consider checking your pitching rates and ferment temps. i don't do ipas under 7%, and have never had a problem with off flavors. the last one i brewed could've been either considered at the very high end of an ipa, or the very low end of a diipa, and it was great at the 5 week mark (2 weeks ferment, 3 weeks bottle). but again if you're kegging you could be enjoying much sooner. with that one in particular i found that the perceived bitterness actually went up as time went on (i assume it was as the malts melded a bit more) but the strong hops flavor and especially the aroma started to fade significantly after the 6-7 week mark.

 

[sputnam]

OP, out of anybody's advice on this website, i would take yooper's into consideration most. every time she's given me advice, it's been spot on to what i've later found through reading homebrewing books and articles (not that i didn't trust her advice the first time, just that i usually only ask for advice on here when i'm in a pinch and don't have time to scour through all the resources. then when i do have time, i realize she was spot on.)

honestly, and i suppose i'm probably just reiterating what others have said, if you're getting off flavors with your diipas, i would seriously consider checking your pitching rates and ferment temps. i don't do ipas under 7%, and have never had a problem with off flavors. the last one i brewed could've been either considered at the very high end of an ipa, or the very low end of a diipa, and it was great at the 5 week mark (2 weeks ferment, 3 weeks bottle). but again if you're kegging you could be enjoying much sooner. with that one in particular i found that the perceived bitterness actually went up as time went on (i assume it was as the malts melded a bit more) but the strong hops flavor and especially the aroma started to fade significantly after the 6-7 week mark.

i'm not getting off flavors just not the aroma i had expected.

i DO trust Yooper and listen to her advice often, and will probably try this recipe again and get that puppy kegged, carbbed, and drinking in 3 weeks.

It's just that it seems like I do a LOT of research and get the answers I THINK I need and then everyone tells me something different. I'm a bit confused but like I said, I will make this again and cut the time in half (or more) and post the results.

 

[joshesmusica]

oh, i read your post wrong. i was thinking the boozy flavors were in some of yours. i really don't think you should be getting boozy no matter how big of a beer it is. i guess if you're getting boozy on bigger beers, there's just more of a chance the temps got too warm because of more ferment activity.
are you trying your beers at different phases? for example, i typically ferment for about 9 days, do a gravity reading, and that's when i dry hop. i taste the gravity reading instead of pouring it back (it's usually at my FG by then). then i dry hop for 5 days. at bottling point i of course do another gravity reading and taste that (if it wasn't at my fg before, it definitley is now). i then break the rules and try one bottle a week until it's fully carbed (which is usually at the 2 1/2 - 3 week mark). i do all this tasting in order to see how the flavors are developing. when i become really good at this, i may stop tasting the bottles each week, but for now it's just for the sake of learning.